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How come there are so few Christian refugees?

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  • Snowygerry
    replied
    You have to go get them.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33439875

    "We did it via civil society organisations which could get them out of there," a foreign ministry spokesman said.

    Few other details have been revealed, but the spokesman said some of the families had connections with people already in Belgium.

    Leave a comment:


  • Persephone
    replied
    Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
    I get that, we all know that ISIL wants to wipe groups out . Otoh instead of becoming slaves or getting executed, many Iraqi Christians and Syrian Christians are fighting ISIL. I think its important to bring this fact up when discussing Christians in the middle east.

    What do you think though? And what your links have said does not negate the many Christians and Muslims teaming up to fight ISIL...thats the important part. Those who make the general claim that Christians are being persecuted by Muslims should know that many Syrian and Iraqi Christians are fighting ISIL.


    Also many of the Christians in Lebanon and Syria support and some fight for Hezbollah. I wonder if the folks making the suggestions that Muslims should be banned because they might be tied to ISIL, would think about having Christian refugees that come from Syria, who might be connected to Hezbollah.

    You're right, the Assyrian Christians stayed to fight but had to flee north when ISIL started aggressively killing off Christians in Iraq and Syria. Now they are battling with the Kurds for land in the northern regions.



    Christian Assyrian Militias Fighting Kurds in Syria
    by EDWIN MORA - 25 Apr 2016
    Qamishli is primarily controlled by Syrian Kurds, but it also includes predominantly Assyrian districts, such as Al-Wusta.

    Some Assyrians accuse the Kurds of trying to take their lands.

    Kurds seek to establish an autonomous political federation in northern Syria despite objections from foreign governments, including the United States, which fears the disintegration of Syria.

    In February, Retired U.S. Army Lt. Col. Sargis Sangari, an expert on Assyrian issues in the Middle East, told Breitbart News that the region in northern Syria that the Kurds want to declare their own includes all Christian Assyrian villages in the country.

    Clashes between the Assyrians and Kurds in northern Syria are not unprecedented.

    http://www.breitbart.com/national-se...h-kurds-syria/

    Leave a comment:


  • Gixxer86g
    replied
    They're dead, Jim.

    Beam me up......

    Leave a comment:


  • Pruitt
    replied
    To quote a movie I saw, "The Kingdom", we can 'Kill Them All!'. When it gets to expensive for them they will find something else to do.

    Pruitt

    Leave a comment:


  • Urban hermit
    replied
    Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
    Former ISIS Sex Slave Shames Obama With A Single Line
    EXCERPT:
    ...
    “I knew if ISIS were not stopped, they would deliver their crimes everywhere,” she told lawmakers.
    Speaking about the Middle East’s Christians, Yazidis, and other minorities, she warned that “if they are not protected they will be wiped out.”
    …Murad also called on the Islamic community around the world to do more to denounce ISIS.
    “What has been happening has been happening under the name of Islam,” she said. “The Muslims must be the first ones to resist this … We have not seen that Daesh have been labeled as an infidel group within Islam by any Muslim country.”
    ...
    http://rightwise.com/news/former-isi...a-single-line/
    It is not as if iSIS has been secretly carrying out a murderous campaign against Christians, Yazidis etc. they post videos of beheadings, crucifixions, public stonings.
    Anyone who does not join them is dead.. So how do we stop such a group?

    Leave a comment:


  • G David Bock
    replied
    Former ISIS Sex Slave Shames Obama With A Single Line
    EXCERPT:
    ...
    “I knew if ISIS were not stopped, they would deliver their crimes everywhere,” she told lawmakers.
    Speaking about the Middle East’s Christians, Yazidis, and other minorities, she warned that “if they are not protected they will be wiped out.”
    …Murad also called on the Islamic community around the world to do more to denounce ISIS.
    “What has been happening has been happening under the name of Islam,” she said. “The Muslims must be the first ones to resist this … We have not seen that Daesh have been labeled as an infidel group within Islam by any Muslim country.”
    ...
    http://rightwise.com/news/former-isi...a-single-line/

    Leave a comment:


  • Stonewall_Jack
    replied
    Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
    I agree, many are fighting ISIS, but what bothers me is the slaughter of citizens has largely been kept from the public view. Only when a western journalists or citizen is beheaded do we get news coverage. Fact is, it happened daily. The Christian community has been left out of the international press and excluded from the debate of refugees.
    I would agree that ISIL and similar groups pose a serious threat to Christians. ISIL is on a daily basis attacking innocents. I find though its important to make a distinction between ISIL, AQ, Al Nursa when compared to the Syrian or Iraqi people.



    The Syrian or Iraqi people are not the problem as the terrorist groups have international membership.

    I have not seen the #s of Syrian or Iraqi Christians that are trying to flee their home countries , but I do know many Syrian and Iraqi Christians have stayed behind. Btw according to the open doors world watch list, North Korea is the most difficult country of the world for Christians to live in.

    Last edited by Stonewall_Jack; 23 Jun 16, 13:46.

    Leave a comment:


  • Urban hermit
    replied
    Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
    I get that, we all know that ISIL wants to wipe groups out . Otoh instead of becoming slaves or getting executed, many Iraqi Christians and Syrian Christians are fighting ISIL. I think its important to bring this fact up when discussing Christians in the middle east.

    What do you think though? And what your links have said does not negate the many Christians and Muslims teaming up to fight ISIL...thats the important part. Those who make the general claim that Christians are being persecuted by Muslims should know that many Syrian and Iraqi Christians are fighting ISIL.


    Also many of the Christians in Lebanon and Syria support and some fight for Hezbollah. I wonder if the folks making the suggestions that Muslims should be banned because they might be tied to ISIL, would think about having Christian refugees that come from Syria, who might be connected to Hezbollah.
    I agree, many are fighting ISIS, but what bothers me is the slaughter of citizens has largely been kept from the public view. Only when a western journalists or citizen is beheaded do we get news coverage. Fact is, it happened daily. The Christian community has been left out of the international press and excluded from the debate of refugees.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stonewall_Jack
    replied
    Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
    The only reason the Spanish have let Muslims in is because much of Franco's Army he invaded Spain with was from Spanish Morocco. Maybe the average Spaniard is indifferent but I bet the Catholic Church does not like it. The Spanish had to fight long and hard to get their country back from the North Africans.

    Pruitt
    Its a highly interesting subject^, that is the history of the Jews and Muslims in Spain.

    It has been claimed that Jews and Muslims assisted Columbus with finding the New world,

    1492, the year of Columbus’ voyage was the same year that Ferdinand and Isabella completed the Reconquista and captured Granada. At that time Muslims and Jews were given a choice to either convert, go into exile, or face the Inquisition. Among both communities some became Moriscos (Muslims) or Marranos (Jews) who chose “conversion” to Christianity. In some cases they were actually converts, but more often only pretended to convert in order to save themselves.

    There have been many claims by both the Jewish and Muslim communities that there were Moriscos and/or Marranos who were on Columbus voyages. In fact, some have even claimed that Columbus himself was a Marrano **.

    Some of those who have been identified as Morisco/Marrano are: Luis Torres, a translator Columbus brought along to speak to people in the Far East (where he thought he was going) and who spoke Hebrew and Arabic **, Rodrigo de Triana, Maestre Bernal, Pedro Alonzo Nino, etc. **

    It would certainly not be outside the realm of possibility that Moriscos and/or Marranos were among those who sailed with Columbus. Although both categories of people were forbidden to emigrate to the “New World” by Spanish law, Paul Lunde wrote a lengthy article explaining how this was probably overcome in the article Muslims And Muslim Technology In The New World.


    http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php...lumbus/0019328

    Furthermore,

    Between 1609 and 1614, some 300,000 moriscos were expelled from Spain. These were Mus*lims who had remained in the country - partic*ularly in Andalusia, Valencia and Aragon - after the fall of Granada to the Christians in 1492. The majority were craftsmen and market-gardeners, whose huertas , or vegetable gardens, had contributed so much to the agricultural prosperity of Spain. In the 117 years since the extinction of Muslim power in the peninsula, an increasing number of laws had been promulgated by the Spanish crown against the moriscos, limiting their freedom of worship and their use of Arabic language, dress and customs. Revolts had inevitably followed, in Granada and in Valencia. It was an effort to aid moriscos involved in a revolt in the lat*ter city that had brought Turk*ish admiral Kemal Reis and his nephew Piri into Spanish waters in 1501 (See "Piri Reis and the Columbus Map," in this issue).

    Moriscos, along with Prot*estants, Jews and Gypsies, were forbidden to travel to Spanish America. Even Ital*ians from the Spanish pos*sessions of Naples and Sicily were not welcome. An elabo*rate bureaucracy was set up in Seville to screen prospective immigrants; regulations were complex and very time-consuming, and it was not at all easy to get the coveted licencia that entitled one to set sail for the New World.


    ....

    Obviously, since it was illegal for moriscos to go to the New World, they do not appear as such in the listas de pasajeros in the Archive of the Indies in Seville. Yet from very early times, per*il haps from Columbus's first voyages, male and female a moriscos are mentioned in the literary sources. Beatriz LaI Morisca took part with Francisco Pizarro in the conquest of Peru, along with Isabel Rodríguez, "La Conquistadora." For anyone with the will, there was always a way to the New World, either through simple bribery or by more complex means. A single example will show how individual initiative could succeed in overcoming bureaucratic regulations.

    This story occurs in the fas*cinating Historia de la villa imperial de Potosí, by Nicolás de Martínez Arzans y Vela, composed around 1705. In 1561, a certain Captain Gior*gio Zapata, who claimed to have been in the service of the duke of Medinaceli and the viceroy of Sicily, arrived in Potosí. He apprenticed him*self to a German miner - who had presumably been al*lowed into Peru because of his specialized knowledge - discovered a very rich silver vein, and for 10 years developed it in partnership with a man named Rodrigo Pelaez. Zapata became one of the richest men in Potosí, and one of the most respected as well.

    After 15 years in Potosí - it must have seemed a life*time in that cold, inhospitable place - Giorgio Zapata decided to return to his country. He gave gifts to all his friends and bid them good-bye, taking with him 2,000,000 pieces of eight and 138 kilos (304 pounds) of pure gold. But instead of sailing to Spain, Zapata went to Istanbul and presented himself to the sultan, Murad II. Istanbul, it turned out, was really his native city, and his real name was Amir Çighala. He gave the sultan part of the gold he had brought from Potosí and became admiral of the fleet. He subsequently had a very successful naval career and was later named gov*ernor of Algiers.


    http://archive.aramcoworld.com/issue....new.world.htm

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  • Pruitt
    replied
    Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
    That is going rather deep into the past.
    The only reason the Spanish have let Muslims in is because much of Franco's Army he invaded Spain with was from Spanish Morocco. Maybe the average Spaniard is indifferent but I bet the Catholic Church does not like it. The Spanish had to fight long and hard to get their country back from the North Africans.

    Pruitt

    Leave a comment:


  • Stonewall_Jack
    replied
    I would imagine the person in this video



    Who is using comical and sarcastic language, is not aware of what happens day to day in the middle east.

    Like for example how specifically in Lebanon the bond between Christian and Muslim runs deep, including support from Lebanese Christians toward Hezbollah, and Hezbollah is fighting ISIL.

    http://www.christianpost.com/news/th...ebanon-138975/




    And there are others who have said Christians are being persecuted in the middle east, and the only safe place for Christians in the middle east is in Israel. Of course the truth is that all over the middle east including in Israel and Lebanon there is safety for Muslim and Christian. Many Muslims work in Israel, and have Jewish friends. In Lebanon there are many friendships between religions. There is unfortunately also much fighting going on in the middle east..which is a main cause for the refugee Crisis. Even with the fighting going on, we can see from reports on the ground what people think of the situation, and many Christians in Syria and Iraq are either fighting for their gov or with some militia in the fight against ISIL.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stonewall_Jack
    replied
    I get that, we all know that ISIL wants to wipe groups out . Otoh instead of becoming slaves or getting executed, many Iraqi Christians and Syrian Christians are fighting ISIL. I think its important to bring this fact up when discussing Christians in the middle east.

    What do you think though? And what your links have said does not negate the many Christians and Muslims teaming up to fight ISIL...thats the important part. Those who make the general claim that Christians are being persecuted by Muslims should know that many Syrian and Iraqi Christians are fighting ISIL.


    Also many of the Christians in Lebanon and Syria support and some fight for Hezbollah. I wonder if the folks making the suggestions that Muslims should be banned because they might be tied to ISIL, would think about having Christian refugees that come from Syria, who might be connected to Hezbollah.

    Leave a comment:


  • Urban hermit
    replied
    Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
    There are Christian refugees, and Christians whom have stayed behind to fight against ISIL and other terrorist groups. Many of the Christians and Muslims of Syria are praying together that ISIL is defeated






    Christians are not the most persecuted group in the middle east...thats probably the Shia Muslims who faith certain death at the hands of ISIL. Its a popular selling point to say things like Christians are persecuted in the middle east, but its also misleading propaganda to claim Christians are the most persecuted group in the middle east. Think of the folks whom are making this claim that Christians are the most persecuted group in the middle east, some of them appear to be foreign agitators, trying to throw a wrench into US politics. We know that many Christians of the middle east are fighting ISIL., so I would like to ask the person in the video what about the Christians teaming up with their fellow countrymen in Syria and Iraq to fight ISIL?

    In Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan, and Syria Christians live as equals to the Muslims. Especially Lebanon where 40% of the population is Christian. Look at Spain, Spain is today some 2% Muslim and was during the middle ages controlled mostly by Muslims. And yet today Spain is not intolerant toward Muslims, and neither is Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Oman, Yemen, and all the Muslim majority countries of the world intolerant toward Christians. Maybe in some Muslim majority countries the politicians speak out against minorities, I get that. But in all the Muslim majority countries you will find friendships between Christian and Muslim. In Saudi Arabia there are no Churches, in the Vatican there are no Mosques, but of course there are friendships between Muslims and Christians of Saudi and the Vatican.
    A government attempt to prevent MPs from declaring that Islamic State’s treatment of Yazidis and Christians amounted to genocide was crushed on Wednesday, when the Commons voted unanimously to condemn their treatment and refer the issue to the UN security council.

    It is almost unprecedented for MPs collectively to declare actions in a war as genocide.

    Islamic State (Isis) has carried out a campaign of murder, violence and repression against Christians and the Yazidi ethnic and religious minority since seizing large swaths of northern Iraq and Syria.

    However, the Foreign Office directed ministers and parliamentary aides to abstain, saying it was wrong for the government to prejudge the issue or act as a jury on a case that may yet be referred to the international criminal court.
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...-isis-genocide

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  • Urban hermit
    replied
    Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
    King Ferdinand ad Queen Isabella were certainly intolerant of any religion in Spain that was not Catholic. Even after the ones that stayed were "converted" and they still faced persecution. Look up Torquemada and the auto de fey! Lots of Spanish colonists in the New World were descendants of the persecuted. My children are half Cajun. I had the dna test ran on one daughter and she showed French, Spanish, Canary Islands, Ashkenazi and Sepphardic gene markers.

    Not all Spanish are descended from Goths.

    Pruitt
    That is going rather deep into the past.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pruitt
    replied
    King Ferdinand ad Queen Isabella were certainly intolerant of any religion in Spain that was not Catholic. Even after the ones that stayed were "converted" and they still faced persecution. Look up Torquemada and the auto de fey! Lots of Spanish colonists in the New World were descendants of the persecuted. My children are half Cajun. I had the dna test ran on one daughter and she showed French, Spanish, Canary Islands, Ashkenazi and Sepphardic gene markers.

    Not all Spanish are descended from Goths.

    Pruitt

    Leave a comment:

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