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  • #31
    Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
    The only reason the Spanish have let Muslims in is because much of Franco's Army he invaded Spain with was from Spanish Morocco. Maybe the average Spaniard is indifferent but I bet the Catholic Church does not like it. The Spanish had to fight long and hard to get their country back from the North Africans.

    Pruitt
    Its a highly interesting subject^, that is the history of the Jews and Muslims in Spain.

    It has been claimed that Jews and Muslims assisted Columbus with finding the New world,

    1492, the year of Columbus’ voyage was the same year that Ferdinand and Isabella completed the Reconquista and captured Granada. At that time Muslims and Jews were given a choice to either convert, go into exile, or face the Inquisition. Among both communities some became Moriscos (Muslims) or Marranos (Jews) who chose “conversion” to Christianity. In some cases they were actually converts, but more often only pretended to convert in order to save themselves.

    There have been many claims by both the Jewish and Muslim communities that there were Moriscos and/or Marranos who were on Columbus voyages. In fact, some have even claimed that Columbus himself was a Marrano **.

    Some of those who have been identified as Morisco/Marrano are: Luis Torres, a translator Columbus brought along to speak to people in the Far East (where he thought he was going) and who spoke Hebrew and Arabic **, Rodrigo de Triana, Maestre Bernal, Pedro Alonzo Nino, etc. **

    It would certainly not be outside the realm of possibility that Moriscos and/or Marranos were among those who sailed with Columbus. Although both categories of people were forbidden to emigrate to the “New World” by Spanish law, Paul Lunde wrote a lengthy article explaining how this was probably overcome in the article Muslims And Muslim Technology In The New World.


    http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php...lumbus/0019328

    Furthermore,

    Between 1609 and 1614, some 300,000 moriscos were expelled from Spain. These were Mus*lims who had remained in the country - partic*ularly in Andalusia, Valencia and Aragon - after the fall of Granada to the Christians in 1492. The majority were craftsmen and market-gardeners, whose huertas , or vegetable gardens, had contributed so much to the agricultural prosperity of Spain. In the 117 years since the extinction of Muslim power in the peninsula, an increasing number of laws had been promulgated by the Spanish crown against the moriscos, limiting their freedom of worship and their use of Arabic language, dress and customs. Revolts had inevitably followed, in Granada and in Valencia. It was an effort to aid moriscos involved in a revolt in the lat*ter city that had brought Turk*ish admiral Kemal Reis and his nephew Piri into Spanish waters in 1501 (See "Piri Reis and the Columbus Map," in this issue).

    Moriscos, along with Prot*estants, Jews and Gypsies, were forbidden to travel to Spanish America. Even Ital*ians from the Spanish pos*sessions of Naples and Sicily were not welcome. An elabo*rate bureaucracy was set up in Seville to screen prospective immigrants; regulations were complex and very time-consuming, and it was not at all easy to get the coveted licencia that entitled one to set sail for the New World.


    ....

    Obviously, since it was illegal for moriscos to go to the New World, they do not appear as such in the listas de pasajeros in the Archive of the Indies in Seville. Yet from very early times, per*il haps from Columbus's first voyages, male and female a moriscos are mentioned in the literary sources. Beatriz LaI Morisca took part with Francisco Pizarro in the conquest of Peru, along with Isabel Rodríguez, "La Conquistadora." For anyone with the will, there was always a way to the New World, either through simple bribery or by more complex means. A single example will show how individual initiative could succeed in overcoming bureaucratic regulations.

    This story occurs in the fas*cinating Historia de la villa imperial de Potosí, by Nicolás de Martínez Arzans y Vela, composed around 1705. In 1561, a certain Captain Gior*gio Zapata, who claimed to have been in the service of the duke of Medinaceli and the viceroy of Sicily, arrived in Potosí. He apprenticed him*self to a German miner - who had presumably been al*lowed into Peru because of his specialized knowledge - discovered a very rich silver vein, and for 10 years developed it in partnership with a man named Rodrigo Pelaez. Zapata became one of the richest men in Potosí, and one of the most respected as well.

    After 15 years in Potosí - it must have seemed a life*time in that cold, inhospitable place - Giorgio Zapata decided to return to his country. He gave gifts to all his friends and bid them good-bye, taking with him 2,000,000 pieces of eight and 138 kilos (304 pounds) of pure gold. But instead of sailing to Spain, Zapata went to Istanbul and presented himself to the sultan, Murad II. Istanbul, it turned out, was really his native city, and his real name was Amir Çighala. He gave the sultan part of the gold he had brought from Potosí and became admiral of the fleet. He subsequently had a very successful naval career and was later named gov*ernor of Algiers.


    http://archive.aramcoworld.com/issue....new.world.htm
    Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
    Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

    George S Patton

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
      I get that, we all know that ISIL wants to wipe groups out . Otoh instead of becoming slaves or getting executed, many Iraqi Christians and Syrian Christians are fighting ISIL. I think its important to bring this fact up when discussing Christians in the middle east.

      What do you think though? And what your links have said does not negate the many Christians and Muslims teaming up to fight ISIL...thats the important part. Those who make the general claim that Christians are being persecuted by Muslims should know that many Syrian and Iraqi Christians are fighting ISIL.


      Also many of the Christians in Lebanon and Syria support and some fight for Hezbollah. I wonder if the folks making the suggestions that Muslims should be banned because they might be tied to ISIL, would think about having Christian refugees that come from Syria, who might be connected to Hezbollah.
      I agree, many are fighting ISIS, but what bothers me is the slaughter of citizens has largely been kept from the public view. Only when a western journalists or citizen is beheaded do we get news coverage. Fact is, it happened daily. The Christian community has been left out of the international press and excluded from the debate of refugees.
      Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
      Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
        I agree, many are fighting ISIS, but what bothers me is the slaughter of citizens has largely been kept from the public view. Only when a western journalists or citizen is beheaded do we get news coverage. Fact is, it happened daily. The Christian community has been left out of the international press and excluded from the debate of refugees.
        I would agree that ISIL and similar groups pose a serious threat to Christians. ISIL is on a daily basis attacking innocents. I find though its important to make a distinction between ISIL, AQ, Al Nursa when compared to the Syrian or Iraqi people.



        The Syrian or Iraqi people are not the problem as the terrorist groups have international membership.

        I have not seen the #s of Syrian or Iraqi Christians that are trying to flee their home countries , but I do know many Syrian and Iraqi Christians have stayed behind. Btw according to the open doors world watch list, North Korea is the most difficult country of the world for Christians to live in.

        Last edited by Stonewall_Jack; 23 Jun 16, 14:46.
        Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
        Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

        George S Patton

        Comment


        • #34
          Former ISIS Sex Slave Shames Obama With A Single Line
          EXCERPT:
          ...
          “I knew if ISIS were not stopped, they would deliver their crimes everywhere,” she told lawmakers.
          Speaking about the Middle East’s Christians, Yazidis, and other minorities, she warned that “if they are not protected they will be wiped out.”
          …Murad also called on the Islamic community around the world to do more to denounce ISIS.
          “What has been happening has been happening under the name of Islam,” she said. “The Muslims must be the first ones to resist this … We have not seen that Daesh have been labeled as an infidel group within Islam by any Muslim country.”
          ...
          http://rightwise.com/news/former-isi...a-single-line/

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
            Former ISIS Sex Slave Shames Obama With A Single Line
            EXCERPT:
            ...
            “I knew if ISIS were not stopped, they would deliver their crimes everywhere,” she told lawmakers.
            Speaking about the Middle East’s Christians, Yazidis, and other minorities, she warned that “if they are not protected they will be wiped out.”
            …Murad also called on the Islamic community around the world to do more to denounce ISIS.
            “What has been happening has been happening under the name of Islam,” she said. “The Muslims must be the first ones to resist this … We have not seen that Daesh have been labeled as an infidel group within Islam by any Muslim country.”
            ...
            http://rightwise.com/news/former-isi...a-single-line/
            It is not as if iSIS has been secretly carrying out a murderous campaign against Christians, Yazidis etc. they post videos of beheadings, crucifixions, public stonings.
            Anyone who does not join them is dead.. So how do we stop such a group?
            Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
            Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

            Comment


            • #36
              To quote a movie I saw, "The Kingdom", we can 'Kill Them All!'. When it gets to expensive for them they will find something else to do.

              Pruitt
              Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

              Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

              by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

              Comment


              • #37
                They're dead, Jim.

                Beam me up......
                ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

                BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

                BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
                  I get that, we all know that ISIL wants to wipe groups out . Otoh instead of becoming slaves or getting executed, many Iraqi Christians and Syrian Christians are fighting ISIL. I think its important to bring this fact up when discussing Christians in the middle east.

                  What do you think though? And what your links have said does not negate the many Christians and Muslims teaming up to fight ISIL...thats the important part. Those who make the general claim that Christians are being persecuted by Muslims should know that many Syrian and Iraqi Christians are fighting ISIL.


                  Also many of the Christians in Lebanon and Syria support and some fight for Hezbollah. I wonder if the folks making the suggestions that Muslims should be banned because they might be tied to ISIL, would think about having Christian refugees that come from Syria, who might be connected to Hezbollah.

                  You're right, the Assyrian Christians stayed to fight but had to flee north when ISIL started aggressively killing off Christians in Iraq and Syria. Now they are battling with the Kurds for land in the northern regions.



                  Christian Assyrian Militias Fighting Kurds in Syria
                  by EDWIN MORA - 25 Apr 2016
                  Qamishli is primarily controlled by Syrian Kurds, but it also includes predominantly Assyrian districts, such as Al-Wusta.

                  Some Assyrians accuse the Kurds of trying to take their lands.

                  Kurds seek to establish an autonomous political federation in northern Syria despite objections from foreign governments, including the United States, which fears the disintegration of Syria.

                  In February, Retired U.S. Army Lt. Col. Sargis Sangari, an expert on Assyrian issues in the Middle East, told Breitbart News that the region in northern Syria that the Kurds want to declare their own includes all Christian Assyrian villages in the country.

                  Clashes between the Assyrians and Kurds in northern Syria are not unprecedented.

                  http://www.breitbart.com/national-se...h-kurds-syria/
                  "Stand for the flag ~ Kneel for the fallen"

                  "A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer." ~ Bruce Lee

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    You have to go get them.

                    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33439875

                    "We did it via civil society organisations which could get them out of there," a foreign ministry spokesman said.

                    Few other details have been revealed, but the spokesman said some of the families had connections with people already in Belgium.
                    High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.

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