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Law enforcement studies Orlando response.

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
    Here's a example of one. Also if the perp is running and dodging he's not doing much shooting...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foster-Miller_TALON
    Interesting, however have they been used in a hostage situation yet? I could see these Bots spaying a room of hostiles, but discriminating between targets is the challenge. I guess we need a test case and one cleared by the lawyers.
    Ne Obliviscaris, Sans Peur

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    • #62
      Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
      Agreed. The crowd probably had zero people that were ex-military, military, law enforcement, or even things like martial arts and such practitioners among them. Add in most or all were in some degree of drunkenness and you have a herd of sheep in a panic.
      I'd bet many milled around uselessly without a clue what to do other than stand there and scream...
      I read there was an ex marine at the club. Rather than doing a suicide charge he helped around 70 to escape by guiding them through the back entrance.
      http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/15/ex-mar...oting-5945884/
      "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Escape2Victory View Post
        Interesting, however have they been used in a hostage situation yet? I could see these Bots spaying a room of hostiles, but discriminating between targets is the challenge. I guess we need a test case and one cleared by the lawyers.
        Not yet. Too slow and not able to handle stairs.

        Since it is directly operated by a Human, accuracy should be better than average, and the use of force already covered.

        Its not a solution now, but I expect that in years to come it will be. They are already replacing bomb techs.
        Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
          Not yet. Too slow and not able to handle stairs.

          Since it is directly operated by a Human, accuracy should be better than average, and the use of force already covered.

          Its not a solution now, but I expect that in years to come it will be. They are already replacing bomb techs.
          Foster-Miller claims the TALON is one of the fastest robots in production, one that can travel through sand, water, and snow as well as climb stairs.
          Credo quia absurdum.


          Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
            The wiki says that it can do stairs...
            Missed that.

            Its day is coming, that is certain.
            Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
              Foster-Miller claims the TALON is one of the fastest robots in production, one that can travel through sand, water, and snow as well as climb stairs.
              I would like to know why the SWORD models failed in Iraq.

              Still, they are definitely onto something. The cost of a single tac team member is staggering.
              Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                I would like to know why the SWORD models failed in Iraq.

                Still, they are definitely onto something. The cost of a single tac team member is staggering.
                I'd guess it was a decision generated by some pc bozo...

                Remember all the angst against military robots?
                Credo quia absurdum.


                Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                  I would never say it, for example, to Trung Si or Jeffdoorgunner, to name two, because they have established their bona fides.
                  Fine. How exactly is that sort of thing done, pass the AJR smell-teste to the satisfaction of the commissioner?
                  And if you want me to do something ignorant like put my DD-214 on the net, guess again.

                  Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                  Not bad. That would make you average at that station in our qualification. To shoot better than average you would have to put 10 rounds into an area the size of a playing card, with a combat reload, in 4 seconds.
                  I'd love to see a vid of that being done.

                  Now, earlier you stated that LEOs average hitting their target in a fight 1-6 times, and the bad guys average 1-10.
                  Just flip back a few pages, its still there.
                  Now, going by that yardstick (I took your word for it) the average criminal can hit a target the the size of a playing card about 6 times in 4 seconds, including combat reload.
                  By your measure, they are 40% worse at shooting, after all.
                  HOGWASH.
                  The average chack-head couldn't hit the Barn door if he was standing inside it.

                  I know you go off like a vengeful Poodle with a law degree every time we talk about anything to do with this, so just forget it. But I have to say... on a good day you are a great poster. On a bad day, your worse than anyone on my ignore list.
                  "Why is the Rum gone?"

                  -Captain Jack

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
                    Fine. How exactly is that sort of thing done, pass the AJR smell-teste to the satisfaction of the commissioner?
                    And if you want me to do something ignorant like put my DD-214 on the net, guess again.



                    I'd love to see a vid of that being done.

                    Now, earlier you stated that LEOs average hitting their target in a fight 1-6 times, and the bad guys average 1-10.
                    Just flip back a few pages, its still there.
                    Now, going by that yardstick (I took your word for it) the average criminal can hit a target the the size of a playing card about 6 times in 4 seconds, including combat reload.
                    By your measure, they are 40% worse at shooting, after all.
                    HOGWASH.

                    The average chack-head couldn't hit the Barn door if he was standing inside it.

                    I know you go off like a vengeful Poodle with a law degree every time we talk about anything to do with this, so just forget it. But I have to say... on a good day you are a great poster. On a bad day, your worse than anyone on my ignore list.

                    Well it depends on the gun and the shooter. I trained a compete newb for about five minutes, (never fired a pistol before) and he hit a tin can six out of nine times at about 30'. It was a Luger which is a natural shooter. But I was impressed nonetheless... The first three were misses and I corrected his aim...
                    Credo quia absurdum.


                    Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

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                    • #70
                      The only thing that prepares you for something like this is,
                      Something like this.
                      Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                      Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
                        Fine. How exactly is that sort of thing done, pass the AJR smell-teste to the satisfaction of the commissioner?
                        And if you want me to do something ignorant like put my DD-214 on the net, guess again.
                        Commissioner?

                        Ex, you are a man of many fine qualities, but it is painfully clear you haven't been in a real deadly force situation.

                        Which is, BTW, an enviable state.

                        Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
                        I'd love to see a vid of that being done.

                        Now, earlier you stated that LEOs average hitting their target in a fight 1-6 times, and the bad guys average 1-10.
                        Just flip back a few pages, its still there.
                        Now, going by that yardstick (I took your word for it) the average criminal can hit a target the the size of a playing card about 6 times in 4 seconds, including combat reload.
                        By your measure, they are 40% worse at shooting, after all.
                        HOGWASH.
                        The average chack-head couldn't hit the Barn door if he was standing inside it.
                        First, and a telling point, as I noted some posts back, punching paper is one thing, shooting under combat conditions is another thing entirely.

                        Secondly, crackheads are not generally who the police get into shootings with.

                        You are burdened with stereotypes, Ex.

                        Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
                        I know you go off like a vengeful Poodle with a law degree every time we talk about anything to do with this, so just forget it. But I have to say... on a good day you are a great poster. On a bad day, your worse than anyone on my ignore list.
                        The trouble is, you have certain preconceived notions about the law, the police, and the system which quickly brings us to loggerheads.

                        Such as this situation: you seem genuinely surprised that most police officers are not great shots, or that we would not storm a building. While I'm pleased you think so well of us, it just ain't so. The police have never worked like that.

                        Plus you continue to confuse the law with right & wrong, and common sense. Neither really apply.
                        Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
                          The only thing that prepares you for something like this is,
                          Something like this.
                          Truer words are never spoken.

                          All training accomplishes is to give you a core of muscle memory which hopefully will carry through into that first encounter.
                          Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                            (...) In a bar, the shooter can cover most if not all points of entry, and that means he will be one-on-one with the first officer through the door; he might have night vision, he might be behind cover, his eyes are adjusted to the current conditions...the advantage is completely in his favor. As a point in fact Orlando tactical blew holes in the wall to gain entry, and still had an officer shot.
                            A bar indeed, here it was reported more as a club.

                            If it's a small place with no windows and one exit, that alone could explain the high death toll.

                            Was there not a report some officers evacuated some from the inside by other entrance points during the first few hours ?
                            Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Game.

                            Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                              Truer words are never spoken.

                              All training accomplishes is to give you a core of muscle memory which hopefully will carry through into that first encounter.
                              True, we can build a well trained core unit, practice practice practice, but the bad guys will never attack at the practice facility.

                              I believe we are now at the point that requires the public to be more aware of surroundings, look for tell tale signs of things going bad, polio can not do this alone.
                              Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                              Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
                                True, we can build a well trained core unit, practice practice practice, but the bad guys will never attack at the practice facility.

                                I believe we are now at the point that requires the public to be more aware of surroundings, look for tell tale signs of things going bad, polio can not do this alone.
                                Exactly. Run, hide, defend. That sort of thing needs to be as much of the public consciousness as 'stop, drop, and roll', or 'buckle up'.
                                Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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