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  • Coarsening public discourse is working as people become comfortable supporting T

    Coarsening public discourse is working as people become more comfortable supporting Trump

    See how this is playing out?
    Is the genie out of the bottle?
    Has a threshold been crossed?

    The rise of Trump and his approach (which I have, in a stroke of subtle yet powerful genius have coined ‘Trumpism’) has resulted in increasing tolerance of what was previously considered intolerable.

    Far from damaging his ‘cause’ this coarsening of public discourse is beginning to work in his favour.

    People are gradually becoming more comfortable supporting Trump.
    At present still tentatively, with qualifications and rationalizations (as evident by some posters on this Forum who, might for example say something like ‘anyone but HER!’) but I think you’ll see this phenomenon grow as the weeks go by.
    Still five months to go remember, plenty of time for him to reset the political landscape to his liking.

    The fate of his GOP primaries rivals shows the desperate limitations of playing to the political orthodoxy in the current climate.
    Talk about interesting times.

    There are few certainties in life or in the world, but that lodestar will end up in an unmarked, shallow grave in a desolate, forsaken, wind-blown corner of a remote, barren and unknown land, is surely one of them
    Regards lodestar

  • #2
    Originally posted by lodestar View Post
    Coarsening public discourse is working as people become more comfortable supporting Trump

    See how this is playing out?
    Is the genie out of the bottle?
    Has a threshold been crossed?

    The rise of Trump and his approach (which I have, in a stroke of subtle yet powerful genius have coined ‘Trumpism’) has resulted in increasing tolerance of what was previously considered intolerable.

    Far from damaging his ‘cause’ this coarsening of public discourse is beginning to work in his favour.

    People are gradually becoming more comfortable supporting Trump.
    At present still tentatively, with qualifications and rationalizations (as evident by some posters on this Forum who, might for example say something like ‘anyone but HER!’) but I think you’ll see this phenomenon grow as the weeks go by.
    Still five months to go remember, plenty of time for him to reset the political landscape to his liking.

    The fate of his GOP primaries rivals shows the desperate limitations of playing to the political orthodoxy in the current climate.
    Talk about interesting times.

    There are few certainties in life or in the world, but that lodestar will end up in an unmarked, shallow grave in a desolate, forsaken, wind-blown corner of a remote, barren and unknown land, is surely one of them
    Regards lodestar
    Trump is a symptom not the disease; as the internet became ubiquitous public discourse became progressively more toxic. The internet spawned people that we now refer to as 'trolls' that use the anonymity that the internet provides to attack other people with impunity. Moreover, the internet served as a lubricant to the polarization of current society; why should people attempt to have a civil conversation with someone with a different opinion when there is the psychological comfort of dealing with people that think just like you? Trump is a master demagogue that is plying his trade to a very specific and receptive audience; he is in effect a political surfer that has managed to catch a perfect wave of discontent in America's current society. The larger question is whether or not Trump will be able to ride that wave all the way to the White House.
    Give me a fast ship and the wind at my back for I intend to sail in harms way! (John Paul Jones)

    Initiated Chief Petty Officer
    Hard core! Old School! Deal with it!

    Comment


    • #3
      Who would have thought Trump would get in 1 year ago?

      It sure is amazing this Run Trump is on..going from a underdog to win the GOP nomination to becoming the favorite to win the GOP nomination, to winning the GOP nomination. And now folks are saying Trump is the favorite to win the Presidency.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Bass_Man86 View Post
        Trump is a symptom not the disease; as the internet became ubiquitous public discourse became progressively more toxic. The internet spawned people that we now refer to as 'trolls' that use the anonymity that the internet provides to attack other people with impunity. Moreover, the internet served as a lubricant to the polarization of current society; why should people attempt to have a civil conversation with someone with a different opinion when there is the psychological comfort of dealing with people that think just like you? Trump is a master demagogue that is plying his trade to a very specific and receptive audience; he is in effect a political surfer that has managed to catch a perfect wave of discontent in America's current society. The larger question is whether or not Trump will be able to ride that wave all the way to the White House.


        I would submit that Trump and Bernie are riding that same wave.

        Those who support them aren't guilty of all the sins that you imply. It is entirely possible that their supporters have seen the other candidates and found them wanting.
        People who are not happy with allowing the political establishment of both parties to control things are naturally going to flock to outsiders like Bernie and trump.
        Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

        Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
          I would submit that Trump and Bernie are riding that same wave.

          Those who support them aren't guilty of all the sins that you imply. It is entirely possible that their supporters have seen the other candidates and found them wanting.
          People who are not happy with allowing the political establishment of both parties to control things are naturally going to flock to outsiders like Bernie and trump.
          Exactly. People are tired of the 'campaign by rote' method, and guys like Cruz were unable to adapt fast enough to meet that standard.
          Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
            I would submit that Trump and Bernie are riding that same wave.

            Those who support them aren't guilty of all the sins that you imply. It is entirely possible that their supporters have seen the other candidates and found them wanting.
            People who are not happy with allowing the political establishment of both parties to control things are naturally going to flock to outsiders like Bernie and trump.
            I agree that there are only two degrees of separation between Trump and Sanders. The difference between the two is that Trump appeals to the lowest common denominator in society (like it or not Cambronne he comes off as a misogynistic bigot) and Sanders appeals to the idealists. I agree with your position that they both appeal to people that are fed up with party apparatchiks, but I will also point out that I do not speak in absolutes. I will say this though, it is my distinctive impression that a significant segment of Trump supporters simply do not understand why the Donald has made offensive statements. That is reflective of a goodly portion of American society; it reminds me of one of the kids that I went to high school with that insisted on calling me 'Julio'. When I asked the kid why he called me Julio he told me "You are Italian aren't you? You are just the same as those greaseball Puerto Ricans." The jackass completely failed to understand why I found his comments offensive and actually accused me of being thin skinned; I would not be surprised to discover that he is planning on voting for Trump.
            Give me a fast ship and the wind at my back for I intend to sail in harms way! (John Paul Jones)

            Initiated Chief Petty Officer
            Hard core! Old School! Deal with it!

            Comment


            • #7
              Well, I guess it's all over now...The Lodestar has come out of the closet against Trump and for the murderous, lying Hildebeast.

              You saw it here for your very selves on this date. You will be able to tell your grandchildren.

              Whoopee.

              I never saw so many people afraid of one man, but it warms my heart because if you all fear him so much, he must be doing the right things to wake up America and identifying the true enemies of the nation in the process.

              Next thing to do it to openly identify Trump as the Anti-Christ...oops...can't do that when Obama is still in office.

              I hope he wins, but I will actually miss a few of you when you leave America in protest on behalf of your beloved Evil B Hilary...as I know you will because your hearts are true and you can do nothing less on behalf of your only true goddess.

              Bon Voyage! Benghazi should be nice this time of year.


              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bass_Man86 View Post
                . . . . reminds me of one of the kids that I went to high school with that insisted on calling me 'Julio'. When I asked the kid why he called me Julio he told me "You are Italian aren't you? You are just the same as those greaseball Puerto Ricans." The jackass completely failed to understand why I found his comments offensive and actually accused me of being thin skinned; I would not be surprised to discover that he is planning on voting for Trump.
                Not for nuttin', but I've long held a theory that all of your . . . . island peoples -- Irish, Sicilian, Borinqueños -- suffer from some disabling feature that super-mutates after countless generations of island isolation.

                There can be no doubt that Trump's campaign appeals to particular . . . . sentiments: fear, anxiety, xenophobia . . . . The biggest fear I discern among Trump's supporters is an unreasonable, knee-jerk fear of reason itself. Trump isn't wrong when he observes that the current US immigration regime is problematic at best. Reasonably speaking, it's flat-out broken. Casting some 10 million immigrants as potential rapists, however, is not a reasonable appeal about a real problem: it's crass fear-mongering. Trump's supporters don't want to think about reasonable solutions to real problems: they want quick fixes. They want walls, and chants, and fingers pointed. They want heroes, and they want villains. It's funny that Trump's supporters trend towards the older demographics, 'cause their thought process comes across as downright childish.

                And don't think for a moment that Sanders' crowd is any better. Their "logic" consists of seeing some one better off as prima fascia evidence that the system is rigged. "He has a smart phone, he must have deprived me of mine." Talk about facile.

                We're a species that all too easily can promote crass self-interest to the level of moral imperative. Is it any wonder that our political discourse is so comedic?
                I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                  Not for nuttin', but I've long held a theory that all of your . . . . island peoples -- Irish, Sicilian, Borinqueños -- suffer from some disabling feature that super-mutates after countless generations of island isolation.

                  There can be no doubt that Trump's campaign appeals to particular . . . . sentiments: fear, anxiety, xenophobia . . . . The biggest fear I discern among Trump's supporters is an unreasonable, knee-jerk fear of reason itself. Trump isn't wrong when he observes that the current US immigration regime is problematic at best. Reasonably speaking, it's flat-out broken. Casting some 10 million immigrants as potential rapists, however, is not a reasonable appeal about a real problem: it's crass fear-mongering. Trump's supporters don't want to think about reasonable solutions to real problems: they want quick fixes. They want walls, and chants, and fingers pointed. They want heroes, and they want villains. It's funny that Trump's supporters trend towards the older demographics, 'cause their thought process comes across as downright childish.

                  And don't think for a moment that Sanders' crowd is any better. Their "logic" consists of seeing some one better off as prima fascia evidence that the system is rigged. "He has a smart phone, he must have deprived me of mine." Talk about facile.

                  We're a species that all too easily can promote crass self-interest to the level of moral imperative. Is it any wonder that our political discourse is so comedic?
                  Absolutely Marc! There are about two degrees of separation between Trump and Sanders and that applies to their supporters as well. There are no quick fixes to the issues that we have to deal with. Sanders is just as bad Trump in most substantive respects although he is not as hateful. He promises to make tuition free at public colleges and universities, lower student loan interest rates for current and future borrowers, ensure all children have access to a quality education by fighting to ensure equal access to educational resources, and make childcare and pre-K universal and affordable, but just like Trump he does not really bother us with the his brilliant plans to implement these measures.

                  Given Bernie's socialistic tendencies I can only assume that American tax rates would have to go through the roof to implement his promises. Realistically speaking, we would get more congressional gridlock and more acrimony on Capitol Hill as congressional Republicans will simply dig in their heels and almost everything that Bernie wants. If Trump gets elected the result would be nearly identical as congressional Democrats will likewise dig in their heels. Speaking for myself, I will pass on both Bernie and Donald.
                  Give me a fast ship and the wind at my back for I intend to sail in harms way! (John Paul Jones)

                  Initiated Chief Petty Officer
                  Hard core! Old School! Deal with it!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
                    I would submit that Trump and Bernie are riding that same wave.

                    Those who support them aren't guilty of all the sins that you imply. It is entirely possible that their supporters have seen the other candidates and found them wanting.
                    People who are not happy with allowing the political establishment of both parties to control things are naturally going to flock to outsiders like Bernie and trump.
                    It seems Trumps success is emboldening Sanders supporters, they've seen now it's possible to beat the proposed candidate - that alone will complicate future elections.

                    There was a report on the news here from a correspondent in California who claimed some 1.5 million new voters had registered most of them Sanders supporters.

                    Few attendees at Sanders rallies – least of all Sanders – seem the least bit fazed. He is clearly having fun, eagerly accepting Donald Trump’s challenge to debate him, a challenge the Republican hastily walked back, to avoid facing the 74-year-old former mayor of Burlington, Vermont, mano-a-mano.

                    Many Sanders supporters remain convinced he is going to get the nomination, either by a miraculous landslide in California or by convincing superdelegates to switch their support. Others, like Joe Tellez, whom the Guardian spoke to at a Sanders rally earlier this month in a packed 15,000-capacity stadium in Sacramento, are less sure of victory but remain upbeat.

                    “I think it’s difficult – that might be true,” Tellez said. “It won’t be easy … but I remain hopeful.”

                    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...cratic-primary
                    Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

                    Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bass_Man86 View Post
                      I agree that there are only two degrees of separation between Trump and Sanders. The difference between the two is that Trump appeals to the lowest common denominator in society (like it or not Cambronne he comes off as a misogynistic bigot) and Sanders appeals to the idealists. I agree with your position that they both appeal to people that are fed up with party apparatchiks, but I will also point out that I do not speak in absolutes. I will say this though, it is my distinctive impression that a significant segment of Trump supporters simply do not understand why the Donald has made offensive statements. That is reflective of a goodly portion of American society; it reminds me of one of the kids that I went to high school with that insisted on calling me 'Julio'. When I asked the kid why he called me Julio he told me "You are Italian aren't you? You are just the same as those greaseball Puerto Ricans." The jackass completely failed to understand why I found his comments offensive and actually accused me of being thin skinned; I would not be surprised to discover that he is planning on voting for Trump.

                      Sander's supporters aren't necessarily "idealists".
                      There are many who are looking for their own version of something for nothing too.
                      Sanders is promising benefits paid for with "other people's money".
                      While I think that Sanders is probably the most sincere of the candidates, that doesn't mean his supporters have superior motives. Just an opinion.

                      I won't defend trump, but I do support his implicit argument that laws (i.e. immigration) should be enforced, or changed according to the law. Not ignored simply for political benefit.
                      Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                      Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
                        It seems Trumps success is emboldening Sanders supporters, they've seen now it's possible to beat the proposed candidate - that alone will complicate future elections.

                        There was a report on the news here from a correspondent in California who claimed some 1.5 million new voters had registered most of them Sanders supporters.




                        http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...cratic-primary


                        Sanders is making it interesting.
                        I believe that Sander's success has less to do with Trump and more to do with Hillary being an awful candidate (and person).
                        Sanders is duplicating, to a lesser extent, what Obama did to Hillary in 2008. The more people see of Hillary, the less they like her.
                        Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                        Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                          There can be no doubt that Trump's campaign appeals to particular . . . . sentiments: fear, anxiety, xenophobia . . . . The biggest fear I discern among Trump's supporters is an unreasonable, knee-jerk fear of reason itself. Trump isn't wrong when he observes that the current US immigration regime is problematic at best. Reasonably speaking, it's flat-out broken. Casting some 10 million immigrants as potential rapists, however, is not a reasonable appeal about a real problem: it's crass fear-mongering. Trump's supporters don't want to think about reasonable solutions to real problems: they want quick fixes. They want walls, and chants, and fingers pointed. They want heroes, and they want villains. It's funny that Trump's supporters trend towards the older demographics, 'cause their thought process comes across as downright childish.

                          I think in a lot of cases it's not so much childish fear as it is absolute rage at the current state of affairs. "Reasonable solutions to immigration" all tend towards "givaways and amnesty with no solution to actually curtailing the illegal immigration problem". After decades of hearing 'reason' after 'reason' why nothing has been done, a lot of your older people are just pissed off and are demanding some action. Think Patton: A good plan, executed violently, is better than a perfect plan next week. They've lived through decades of searching for the perfect plan.....they're willing to go with a somewhat functional plan taken to the max at this point. As for 'fear mongering'......Trump is appealing to his base, nothing new....and the media is painting anyone concerned about the immigration problem, or pissed off at the political 'class' for doing nothing, as the next thing to brown shirts.

                          And don't think for a moment that Sanders' crowd is any better. Their "logic" consists of seeing some one better off as prima fascia evidence that the system is rigged. "He has a smart phone, he must have deprived me of mine." Talk about facile.
                          They're not the disease....they're a symptom of the problem.....we've pushed successive generations of people that don't have to compete, learn nothing of hard work or 'earning your way', have been given more than any generation and pumped up with 'self esteem'. No wonder they view equality as equality of outcome, not opportunity.
                          Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                            Not for nuttin', but I've long held a theory that all of your . . . . island peoples -- Irish, Sicilian, Borinqueños -- suffer from some disabling feature that super-mutates after countless generations of island isolation.

                            There can be no doubt that Trump's campaign appeals to particular . . . . sentiments: fear, anxiety, xenophobia . . . . The biggest fear I discern among Trump's supporters is an unreasonable, knee-jerk fear of reason itself. Trump isn't wrong when he observes that the current US immigration regime is problematic at best. Reasonably speaking, it's flat-out broken. Casting some 10 million immigrants as potential rapists, however, is not a reasonable appeal about a real problem: it's crass fear-mongering. Trump's supporters don't want to think about reasonable solutions to real problems: they want quick fixes. They want walls, and chants, and fingers pointed. They want heroes, and they want villains. It's funny that Trump's supporters trend towards the older demographics, 'cause their thought process comes across as downright childish.

                            And don't think for a moment that Sanders' crowd is any better. Their "logic" consists of seeing some one better off as prima fascia evidence that the system is rigged. "He has a smart phone, he must have deprived me of mine." Talk about facile.

                            We're a species that all too easily can promote crass self-interest to the level of moral imperative. Is it any wonder that our political discourse is so comedic?
                            well said.


                            Trump is offensive in his remarks, but he is addressing a very real concern, so while people may not agree with his language, they see him as a candidate who might actually address the problem.
                            The fact that people support trump doesn't mean they are racists or less intelligent. They are frustrated.
                            Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                            Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
                              Sander's supporters aren't necessarily "idealists".
                              There are many who are looking for their own version of something for nothing too.
                              Sanders is promising benefits paid for with "other people's money".
                              While I think that Sanders is probably the most sincere of the candidates, that doesn't mean his supporters have superior motives. Just an opinion.

                              I won't defend trump, but I do support his implicit argument that laws (i.e. immigration) should be enforced, or changed according to the law. Not ignored simply for political benefit.
                              +1 on the bolded.

                              If the law is bad, then change the law. Don't selectively enforce the law based on your personal opinion. Our state statutes are changed yearly as things evolve......laws are tossed out if they're unenforceable or no good....laws are changed to reflect changes in society or situation. The US Code should be the same way. The Executive should enforce the law equally and without malice, and the Legislative should review and amend the law as needed or as requested by the executive.
                              Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

                              Comment

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