Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

You may be next, or who will be next?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by MarkV View Post
    Very - one reason why US industry has declined in many areas is because it employs too few designers. As any one with more than two brain cells to rub together knows design is about far more than producing fancy frocks as Porsche, Rolex, Oceanco, Cartier. Asus, Jaguar etc etc will tell you whilst the many many Internet service companies employ artists and writers by the truck load.
    Department of Labor stats show that the USA employ about half as many people in in creative occupations than many other first world countries.
    Again, you can't be serious about this. You're describing a tiny portion of the workforce. I can appreciate programs that might enable people to pursue talents that may be undeveloped, but it will only benefit a tiny portion of workers.

    I find this idea that people can be magically transformed, wholesale, into artists, writers, athletes, designers ridiculous. How can anyone take this seriously?
    ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

    BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

    BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

    Comment


    • #47
      They can always hire Industrial Light and Magic...
      Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Gixxer86g View Post
        Again, you can't be serious about this. You're describing a tiny portion of the workforce. I can appreciate programs that might enable people to pursue talents that may be undeveloped, but it will only benefit a tiny portion of workers.

        I find this idea that people can be magically transformed, wholesale, into artists, writers, athletes, designers ridiculous. How can anyone take this seriously?
        2.8 million in the UK and growing at over 6 % pa and the same is true for other major industrial nations. About half that number in the USA and growing at less than 2% pa.

        And if you'd actually read some of my posts I did say that such transformations will be difficult and painful - but so were other transformations in how societies worked in the past. Change hurts but in the long term not changing hurts more. Keep your head in the sand long enough and you'll suffocate
        Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
        Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by MarkV View Post
          2.8 million in the UK and growing at over 6 % pa and the same is true for other major industrial nations. About half that number in the USA and growing at less than 2% pa.

          And if you'd actually read some of my posts I did say that such transformations will be difficult and painful - but so were other transformations in how societies worked in the past. Change hurts but in the long term not changing hurts more. Keep your head in the sand long enough and you'll suffocate
          What you fail to realize, is that in the past, there were other realistic employment opportunities for people to move to.

          For instance, when railroads switched to diesel, former steam operators were retrained. This is common sense.

          However, we aren't going to turn railroad workers, truck drivers, assembly line workers into what you suggest. It's fantasy.

          Time to get your head out of the clouds.
          ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

          BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

          BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by MarkV View Post
            Very - one reason why US industry has declined in many areas is because it employs too few designers. As any one with more than two brain cells to rub together knows design is about far more than producing fancy frocks as Porsche, Rolex, Oceanco, Cartier. Asus, Jaguar etc etc will tell you whilst the many many Internet service companies employ artists and writers by the truck load.
            Department of Labor stats show that the USA employ about half as many people in in creative occupations than many other first world countries. One of the reasons it gives for this is international competition. Robots can churn out cheap stuff even more cheaply but it cannot design advanced products. America used to be good at design.
            And, as a quick perusal of useless degree fields will show, none of the above (eg., graphic design, fashion design, and the like) are in demand or pay anything more than squat for most people.
            Most of the world wants say, a toaster that works many times more than a toaster that looks good. Putting more effort into reliability and less into style is preferable to the reverse.

            http://www.forbes.com/pictures/lmj45...ographic-arts/

            For example Mercedes Benz are very stylish but have mediocre reliability.

            http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/c...des|8805776176

            That's why many consumers buy Japanese instead...

            So, people engaged in "art-like" professions can be had a dime-a-dozen. They're the wage slaves of the 21st century.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Gixxer86g View Post
              What you fail to realize, is that in the past, there were other realistic employment opportunities for people to move to.

              For instance, when railroads switched to diesel, former steam operators were retrained. This is common sense.

              However, we aren't going to turn railroad workers, truck drivers, assembly line workers into what you suggest. It's fantasy.

              Time to get your head out of the clouds.
              You're simply operating in a different era. We're not talking about minor changes in technology in the same general industry we are talking about major transformations in society and yes it will be damn difficult and yes many will not make the transition. But there aint much alternative except to smash all the machines. Transform or die.
              Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
              Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

              Comment


              • #52
                I can see this ushering in a new golden age for humanity. Or the opposite as we continue to fight for natural resources. I hope for the former, but think its going to be the latter...
                Credo quia absurdum.


                Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by MarkV View Post
                  You're simply operating in a different era. We're not talking about minor changes in technology in the same general industry we are talking about major transformations in society and yes it will be damn difficult and yes many will not make the transition. But there aint much alternative except to smash all the machines. Transform or die.
                  Problem is, we aren't that far removed from that era yet.

                  What you suggest we transform to simply isn't realistic.
                  ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

                  BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

                  BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    there is another element to this, Europe and other nations with more developed economies are taking in hundreds of thousands refugees, most are going to try to assimilate into those nations.
                    At the same time, those who make up a small percentage of the work force are actively pursuing technologies that will eliminate jobs.......
                    Again I ask, how is this sustainable?
                    Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                    Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      The difference between now and earlier days is higher education being an industry in itself. Forty or fifty years ago, one could go from one goodpaying blue collar job that was eliminated to another. Now, that isn't possible. Many jobs are advertised today that need a BA or MA degree which probably don't. Companies use higher education requirements to narrow the field. Many people either can't afford college, aren't smart enough to go, or don't want to take on the debt. Many retailers want their store managers to have degrees, but with centralized automatic ordering and bookkeeping, it really isn't needed. Thirty years ago, a physical therapist just needed a bachelors degree to start. Now they want them to have a doctorate. The list goes on...

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by johns624 View Post
                        The difference between now and earlier days is higher education being an industry in itself. Forty or fifty years ago, one could go from one goodpaying blue collar job that was eliminated to another. Now, that isn't possible. Many jobs are advertised today that need a BA or MA degree which probably don't. Companies use higher education requirements to narrow the field. Many people either can't afford college, aren't smart enough to go, or don't want to take on the debt. Many retailers want their store managers to have degrees, but with centralized automatic ordering and bookkeeping, it really isn't needed. Thirty years ago, a physical therapist just needed a bachelors degree to start. Now they want them to have a doctorate. The list goes on...
                        Amazon has eliminated many retail jobs, in fact many old name retailers have gone toes up, and more will. The 20 year olds today have little or no brand name loyalty and no desire to interact with humans when they can use an app to shop.
                        I work with a young man who buys everything from Amazon, and by everything I mean detergents, toilet paper, prescriptions, coffee, many food items. He has everything scheduled, and has no desire to go old school.
                        Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                        Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          A story of what happens when industrial jobs go away:

                          http://www.pittsburghmagazine.com/Pi...y-Transformed/
                          "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            On the road so I cannot give a link to article, but I recommend you all read the Saturday essay from wall street journal entitled basic universal income for all americans or some such title. it goes into great detail of how to make it work. it's a two page article.
                            Homo homini lupus

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by MarkV View Post
                              2.8 million in the UK and growing at over 6 % pa and the same is true for other major industrial nations. About half that number in the USA and growing at less than 2% pa.
                              Some good data and analysis here:

                              https://www.nesta.org.uk/sites/defau..._the_eu_v8.pdf
                              Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Game.

                              Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
                                Here is something to chew on (pun intended), the president of NRA (no, not that NRA, the National Restaurant Association) on Tuesday released a interesting insight into the minimum wage debate....
                                In effect he said it is cheaper to install a $30,000.00 robotic system them to raise salaries to $15.00 across the board.
                                Then there is this.



                                http://www.restaurant.org/News-Resea...t-the-NRA-Show

                                This is just the start, car salesmen, bank tellers, pilots, submarine crews, all can be replaced by robots or by remote controllers.
                                In fact the list of careers that have been made obsolete in the past 30 years maybe longer than the list of new careers created.
                                We can debate the value of those careers till ice falls in Hawaii, but what is not addressed is the loss of tax payers.
                                Each employee is a tax payer. Each employee is in their own way contributing to the economy.
                                Eisenhower once wrote that capitalism will defeat communism as long as capitalism provides an opportunity to all those who participate in it.
                                As romantic as it is for man to create robots in his own image, it will ultimately make capitalism obsolete.
                                Capitalism can only function when labor is appreciated and encouraged, not by eliminating opertunity.
                                How many small business owners have $30,000 for one robot to replace their workers? How many robots would they need. This may be on the way, but its still a long way off. The capital that this will require may well be the rate determining step in this process.

                                The number of different kinds of jobs available doesn't necessarily limit the number of actual jobs available. An increase in the populace is a constant trend. As the population increases and society incorporates technology, the number of people each career requires will change. Barring unforeseeable catastrophe, more consumers will mean more jobs in some field.

                                Someone has to design these robots, build/maintain the factory where they're made, install these robots, maintain/calibrate these robots, create and implement the ad campaigns for these robots, market these robots, do the legal paperwork for their owner, manage the finances for the entire process, etc.

                                I started teaching in '97, and the one thing I can count on in education is that its going to change. I can change with it, or fight it. However, fighting it is futile and bad for everyone involved. I'm certain they will need teachers when I retire in 21-22 years. I am not at all certain what my job will look like, or what my focus will be. My career progression has spanned k-12, core subjects, special ed, brick and mortar v. online education. I just know I'll adapt with it.

                                Comment

                                Latest Topics

                                Collapse

                                Working...
                                X