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Russian Planes Buzz The USS Donald Cook

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  • Originally posted by ShAA View Post
    I saw the video of the SU-24, and there was nothing "unprofessional" about it. In such situations, it's only a matter of bias what you call "unprofessional" or not.
    An just what are you basing your "professional" opinion on. Do you fly jets or serve on such ships or do you just get your opinion like most of us by pulling it out of our ---? Bassman spent much of his time in service, crewing such ships.
    "Ask not what your country can do for you"

    Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

    you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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    • Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
      An just what are you basing your "professional" opinion on. Do you fly jets or serve on such ships or do you just get your opinion like most of us by pulling it out of our ---? Bassman spent much of his time in service, crewing such ships.
      That's very simple - no one was hurt, and no one was even close to getting hurt. As for his opinion, it's biased just like yours. Once it's convenient for them, people will call paper kites dangerous heavy bombers
      www.histours.ru

      Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

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      • Originally posted by Epigon View Post
        Sure thing, buddy.

        You tell them Soviets that they were wrong when they developed their anti-carrier tactics and equipment.

        Surely you know better than professionals preparing for an event of a world war.

        I am sure you have all the knowledge of Soviet systems, technology and US countermeasures.
        and the keyboard Commando types again...........

        You spout off about people posting nonsense while in the same post...you post nonsense about air regiments were perfectly capable of destroying US carrier groups.

        Somehow you have knowledge about the Soviet & US defensive and offensive capabilities, the weapons status, and crew capabilities to proclaim that the air regiment would have destroyed the US carrier groups.....

        I was one of the "professionals" preparing for a world war, specifically the Northern and Southern flanks of NATO and Northern Japan. That preparation was focused on the ground combat element.....Bassman was focused on the subject of this thread....his ship was actually built specifically to fight against these types of threats.
        "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

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        • Originally posted by ShAA View Post
          I saw the video of the SU-24, and there was nothing "unprofessional" about it. In such situations, it's only a matter of bias what you call "unprofessional" or not.
          Of course not. One has to be a professional in the first place in order to behave unprofessionally.
          ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

          BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

          BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

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          • A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

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            • Originally posted by Nichols View Post
              and the keyboard Commando types again...........

              You spout off about people posting nonsense while in the same post...you post nonsense about air regiments were perfectly capable of destroying US carrier groups.

              Somehow you have knowledge about the Soviet & US defensive and offensive capabilities, the weapons status, and crew capabilities to proclaim that the air regiment would have destroyed the US carrier groups.....

              I was one of the "professionals" preparing for a world war, specifically the Northern and Southern flanks of NATO and Northern Japan. That preparation was focused on the ground combat element.....Bassman was focused on the subject of this thread....his ship was actually built specifically to fight against these types of threats.
              To make a long story short, set up a Command: Modern Air Naval Operations scenario of either Northern Wedding vs 6 regiments and long-range interceptor support, or Pacific equivalent of 2-3 carrier groups vs. the appropriate Soviet Fareastern theatre naval aviation (MRA) and air forces (VVS).

              If you want realism, assign submarines, Soviet surface pickets and/or reconaissance-strike vanguard groups of Tu-22M+Tu-16, as the Soviet tactics dictated.

              The simulation is far from pro-Soviet/Russian biased, in case you were wondering.

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              • Originally posted by Epigon View Post
                The simulation is far from pro-Soviet/Russian biased, in case you were wondering.
                Oh....that's great....your knowledge is based off of a game with scripted AI.

                You should probably consider basing your unprofessional opinions off of reality....not a game.
                "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

                Comment


                • Originally posted by ShAA View Post
                  That's very simple - no one was hurt, and no one was even close to getting hurt. As for his opinion, it's biased just like yours. Once it's convenient for them, people will call paper kites dangerous heavy bombers
                  Horseshit Shaa! I am calling you out on this, 30 meters is absolutely unsafe. That is not biased that is fact! Clearly you must never have stood in the vicinity of a fighter as it's firing up its engines. Those planes were within 30 meters of that destroyer and the photos prove it and you stuff that in your bias meter! Never mind what you see in silly movies like 'Top Gun', in reality U.S. Navy fighter pilots that pull crap like that receive letters of reprimand and have their wings yanked. If the Russian navy condones that sort of reckless then it condones unprofessional behavior from its members.
                  Last edited by Bass_Man86; 21 Apr 16, 08:11.
                  Give me a fast ship and the wind at my back for I intend to sail in harms way! (John Paul Jones)

                  Initiated Chief Petty Officer
                  Hard core! Old School! Deal with it!

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                  • Originally posted by Bass_Man86 View Post
                    Horseshit Shaa! I am calling you out on this, 30 meters is absolutely unsafe. That is not biased that is fact! Clearly you must never have stood in the vicinity of a fighter as it's firing up its engines. Those planes were within 30 meters of that destroyer and the photos prove it and you stuff that in your bias meter!
                    Chief, you should probably add in that they were also doing helo ops.
                    "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

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                    • Originally posted by hawker_gb View Post
                      Gee,I am glad that US navy commanders are much smarter then some posters here.

                      Shooting that jet down can probably have cosenquence of deploying Tu22 and sink Cook
                      And trigger happy forum posters are willing to risk it.
                      Luckily, writing nonsense on forum won't harm anyone.
                      It's easy to write without any impact on happenings. Real commanders know what can happen so they act accordingly.

                      Sent from my LT18i using Tapatalk
                      Gee, what is your level of expertise in these matters? I did 23 years and five months in the U.S. Navy primarily on cruisers and destroyers working out of the CIC doing AAW, ASW, tactical data links, ASUW, NGFS, OTHT and a few other odds and ends; how about you?
                      Give me a fast ship and the wind at my back for I intend to sail in harms way! (John Paul Jones)

                      Initiated Chief Petty Officer
                      Hard core! Old School! Deal with it!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Epigon View Post
                        Why is Königsberg the "real" name? Just a result from a previous conquest, that Drang nach Osten and Northern Crusades were.
                        The landlubber that I am, I apparently know a little bit more than you. The plane violated the Turkish airspace and the Turks issued warning prior to shotdown, if we are to believe them. So the downing was legally justified. Doing that in international airspace is an altogether different thing.

                        Your tone and rhetorics are funny, in a sad way.

                        The destroyer in question left port of Gdynia on April 11th, and arrived at Klaipeda on April 14th. A very long time for a very short trip.

                        The official narrative is that they were to "practice sea landings" with Polish SH-2G Super Seasprite helicopter units. A nonsense by itself, since those units have performed multiple thousands of landings on Polish vessels over their 20 years of age. Their actual purpose was apparently evident to Russians.
                        Contrary to claims in US and NATO press about "attack simulations" and "attack runs", the Polish media
                        correctly pointed out unarmed aircraft equipped with electronic equipment.
                        The forward deployment of an Aegis destroyer/ABM system can be viewed by Russians as a breach of the Strategic Arms Treaty of 2010. It is no coincidence that this happened earlier in the Black Sea, and was met with a similar response. Actually, it gives Russia the cause to withdraw from the treaty. Don't believe me? Read the treaty articles.
                        Secondly, the destroyer and helicopters were not only buzzed by Su-24, but by Russian helicopters as well, until the entire operation was canceled. The Polish helicopters in question were carrying towed magnetic anomaly detectors, so my guess is that Russians added 2 and 2, and decided to interfere with this exercise. In addition, the Russians rightfully believe that an Aegis destroyer so close to Crimea or Kaliningrad is nothing routine, and is a clearly hostile act, because Russian nuclear, SAM, ballistic systems are located there.

                        That the Pentagon chose to focus on the last pass and call it "strafing" while being silent on the 20+ previous sorties over 2 days is telling.
                        You clearly do not know your geography.



                        Violated Turkish airspace you say? That is quite ironic considering that up until now you have been play devil's advocate. That ship was in international waters and as you will see in the included map, Poland, Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania are all closely aligned with the USA these days and they are all quite mistrustful of Russia. However, I am going to discuss the politics. What I am discussing is a safety issue; when a fighter jet passes within 30 meters of a ship that is not safe.....period. If you are too obtuse to see that, your intellectual shortcomings are not my problem, and yes, you are clearly a landlubber.
                        Give me a fast ship and the wind at my back for I intend to sail in harms way! (John Paul Jones)

                        Initiated Chief Petty Officer
                        Hard core! Old School! Deal with it!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Nichols View Post
                          Oh....that's great....your knowledge is based off of a game with scripted AI.

                          You should probably consider basing your unprofessional opinions off of reality....not a game.
                          They are not. And you can play the carrier force as well, the outcome won't be much different. This is without taking into account the fact that Soviet anti-ship bombers would be carrying nuclear warheads in the actual conflict.

                          They are based on knowledge of systems, technology and tactics.

                          While yours are based on the fact that you were... a soldier, which somehow translates into you outright dismissing everyone and everything else, be it wargame outcomes, technology or tactics.

                          The simulation proposal is just to demonstrate it more vividly to you, since I have no desire or patience to go through details of both sides' forces and tactics employed.

                          Mr. Bassman, my geography and history knowledge are perfectly sound and fine, therefore I don't see the point of posting that huge map. I have identified the discrepancies in the narratives and proclaimed goals of the "forward deployment", in addition to obvious anti-submarine and intelligence gathering nature of the original operation.
                          If they want to "practice helicopter landings" and take the ABM ships for a tour of "forward deployment", there are places around the world where no Russian planes and/or helicopters will even have the ability to show up. However, getting in range of Sevastopol or Kaliningrad is the absolute opposite.
                          Last edited by Epigon; 21 Apr 16, 09:09.

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                          • Originally posted by Epigon View Post
                            They are based on knowledge of systems, technology and tactics.

                            While yours are based on the fact that you were... a soldier
                            Oh oh, now you've done it.

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                            • Originally posted by BKnight3 View Post
                              Oh oh, now you've done it.
                              What have I "done"?

                              The soldier profession encompasses enlisted, NCOs as well as officers. No disrespect there. He may have been part of some other branch of armed forces, so I may be wrong.

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                              • Originally posted by Epigon View Post
                                They are not.
                                Yes, they are scripted and yes they don't accurately model the real world.
                                Originally posted by Epigon View Post
                                And you can play the carrier force as well, the outcome won't be much different. This is without taking into account the fact that Soviet anti-ship bombers would be carrying nuclear warheads in the actual conflict.
                                You can play all day long, you still wont get an accurate assessment of true capabilities with scripted AI.

                                I also note that now you are claiming that the Soviets would have used nuclear warheads in an actual conflict......why did the spend so much on conventional munitions if they were going to use nuclear warheads in an actual conflict?

                                Originally posted by Epigon View Post
                                They are based on knowledge of systems, technology and tactics.
                                They are based on best guess estimates of unclassified capabilities.

                                Originally posted by Epigon View Post
                                While yours are based on the fact that you were... a soldier, which somehow translates into you outright dismissing everyone and everything else, be it wargame outcomes, technology or tactics.
                                My knowledge is also based on simulation use:

                                http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/mca-mari...%20Simulations

                                The above is one of four articles that I published in the Gazette. I also designed the cover for the September 2004 edition that came with a simulation and a TDG that I made.

                                We have run numerous MEB level exercises using simulation, the scripted AI is a major issue because it is impossible to script everything into a simulation.

                                Regarding your use of "Soldier"......you are showing that you don't understand that Naval Forces were tasked with NATO's Northern Flank, this begs the question:

                                What else has your simulation taught you?
                                Last edited by Nichols; 21 Apr 16, 11:20.
                                "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

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