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  • Is it Time for a major change?

    Now We Know Why It’s Time to Dump the Electoral College

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/now-k...172200852.html

    IMO the EC has been long over due to become history.
    "Ask not what your country can do for you"

    Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

    you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

  • #2
    No. The Electoral Collage was design to prevent the urban centers from running roughshod over the rural areas.

    Otherwise;

    Southern California, Chicago, Boston, and the New York City area would be dictating all policies and laws in the country.
    “Breaking News,”

    “Something irrelevant in your life just happened and now we are going to blow it all out of proportion for days to keep you distracted from what's really going on.”

    Comment


    • #3
      It seems to me this topic has to be addressed from the point of view of how much faith you want to place in democracy. Personally I prefer the republican idea. While the Supreme Court in theory can protect us from the majority suppressing the individual rights of a minority the republican system is in theory designed to protect us from the tyranny of democracy. One of the ironies of democracy is that it can and has voted itself out of existence.

      The electoral system is part of the republican concept in so far as it could prevent a populace dictator from being elected. It also in theory promotes the most talented not the most popular into power as matter of practicality Certainly the election of Trudeau in Canada represents an example of non malevolent but ungifted individual being elected based on "sexyness".

      In it's present form the electoral process may represent the interests of career politicians but any system can be corrupted. It seems prudent to not throw the baby out with the bath water.

      If it were the case that only the interests of entrenched politicians were preventing the needed reforms to the electoral process then we could do away with it. That however is not the case and it is the peoples desire for true democracy that makes reform impossible. I would be happy to vote for delegates who then selected candidates but most people would never accept such system.

      It is clear that we cannot have a true representative system because our politicians are corrupt but it does not follow that true democracy is then automatically preferable. I would only suggest that it would be easier to reform the politicians than to expect the general population to display enlightened self interests. I'm not arguing that there is no such thing as collective wisdom only that it would difficult to harness it a practical way.
      We hunt the hunters

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
        Now We Know Why It’s Time to Dump the Electoral College

        https://finance.yahoo.com/news/now-k...172200852.html

        IMO the EC has been long over due to become history.
        The EC isn't the biggest problem & certainly not the one that needs to be dealt with first. A better place to start would be an independent body to draw up Congressional districts. Too few genuinely up for grabs each election. Of course, if you want to shake up the 2 party duopoly then you need something more substantial - a much larger Senate or an alteration to the the way the House of Reps is chosen might help.

        None of this will happen, however. Even if a majority of people wanted it (no evidence) the process to achieve it pretty much precludes major change.
        Human beings are the only creatures on Earth that claim a god and the only living thing that behaves like it hasn't got one - Hunter S. Thompson

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by BF69 View Post
          The EC isn't the biggest problem & certainly not the one that needs to be dealt with first. A better place to start would be an independent body to draw up Congressional districts. Too few genuinely up for grabs each election. Of course, if you want to shake up the 2 party duopoly then you need something more substantial - a much larger Senate or an alteration to the the way the House of Reps is chosen might help.

          None of this will happen, however. Even if a majority of people wanted it (no evidence) the process to achieve it pretty much precludes major change.
          The problem is in finding a genuinely "independent body."
          Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
            The problem is in finding a genuinely "independent body."
            It can be done with an open source computer program based on the same Census Data currently used.
            “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
            “To talk of many things:
            Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
            Of cabbages—and kings—
            And why the sea is boiling hot—
            And whether pigs have wings.”
            ― Lewis Carroll

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            • #7
              Keep the EC. Remove State Legislatures from rigging the Congressional Districts and Remove the two Parties domination\control of the State\Local Ballot access and we're at a 90% solution.
              “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
              “To talk of many things:
              Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
              Of cabbages—and kings—
              And why the sea is boiling hot—
              And whether pigs have wings.”
              ― Lewis Carroll

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                It can be done with an open source computer program based on the same Census Data currently used.
                Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                Keep the EC. Remove State Legislatures from rigging the Congressional Districts and Remove the two Parties domination\control of the State\Local Ballot access and we're at a 90% solution.
                You would have to amend the Constitution to do all of the above.
                Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
                  You would have to amend the Constitution to do all of the above.
                  Yup, but so would the proposed idea that resulted in this thread.
                  “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                  “To talk of many things:
                  Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                  Of cabbages—and kings—
                  And why the sea is boiling hot—
                  And whether pigs have wings.”
                  ― Lewis Carroll

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                    Keep the EC. Remove State Legislatures from rigging the Congressional Districts and Remove the two Parties domination\control of the State\Local Ballot access and we're at a 90% solution.
                    That's similar to what the Confederacy did.
                    “I do not wish to have the slave emancipated because I love him, but because I hate his master."
                    --Salmon P. Chase

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                      Yup, but so would the proposed idea that resulted in this thread.
                      True that.
                      Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Savez View Post
                        That's similar to what the Confederacy did.
                        The Confederacy was VERY anti political party, I don't advocate that at all. I advocate for breaking the monopoly of power over the election process that TWO specific parties now have. ALL parties need to have the exact same process to get on ALL ballots.

                        The Dems and GOP will still have an advantage base on size and money, I have no problem with that. However they need to under go the same process to get on a ballot as any other candidate.
                        “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                        “To talk of many things:
                        Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                        Of cabbages—and kings—
                        And why the sea is boiling hot—
                        And whether pigs have wings.”
                        ― Lewis Carroll

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                          The Confederacy was VERY anti political party, I don't advocate that at all. I advocate for breaking the monopoly of power over the election process that TWO specific parties now have. ALL parties need to have the exact same process to get on ALL ballots.

                          The Dems and GOP will still have an advantage base on size and money, I have no problem with that. However they need to under go the same process to get on a ballot as any other candidate.
                          I'd rather just ban political parties than try to mandate equality... Because the people doing the mandating will be intrinsically political.
                          Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
                            I'd rather just ban political parties than try to mandate equality... Because the people doing the mandating will be intrinsically political.
                            Can't ban a group. At most you could eliminate party names from the ballot, which would also be OK. The Parties function would then be selecting their candidate and working to get them on the ballot, which is exactly what should happen.

                            Mandate would be set by the needed Constitutional Amendment.
                            “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                            “To talk of many things:
                            Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                            Of cabbages—and kings—
                            And why the sea is boiling hot—
                            And whether pigs have wings.”
                            ― Lewis Carroll

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by SRV Ron View Post
                              No. The Electoral Collage was design to prevent the urban centers from running roughshod over the rural areas.

                              Otherwise;

                              Southern California, Chicago, Boston, and the New York City area would be dictating all policies and laws in the country.
                              You mean like they do now? Colorado has zero influence in presidential elections, since the only states required are the ones that constitute the majority of electoral votes.

                              It's way past time to get rid of the antiquated Electoral College system and make every American's vote count.
                              Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                              Comment

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