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GOP super delegates of Colorado went to Cruz, despite ...

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  • #16
    Big money establishment will remain the status quo of every party, new or old, until something is done to reduce the power of lobbying.
    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
    - Benjamin Franklin

    The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

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    • #17
      trump has gotten about 40% of the vote so far but has 45% of the delegates.

      So far the system haas worked in his favor.
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Beatrice Evelyn Hall
      Updated for the 21st century... except if you are criticizing islam, that scares the $hii+e out of me!

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      • #18
        Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
        One establishment, 2 make-believe Parties.

        As I have been saying for years, the Republican Party is going to have to admit that it is run by people that despise Conservatives, and downgrade itself to a strictly Centrist Party.
        Those are the people that this party has been focused on for over two decades in any case.

        And a new party will rise to represent Conservatives, such as the TEA Party.
        Dems that don't like the increasingly fanatical Leftwrds tilt of their party can switch to the centrists and you will have 3 parties with roughly 1/3rd of the electorate each.

        Why worry?
        I'm all for going away from a two party system, as long as yo have to have a MAJORITY to win. If no one gets 50% +1 have a run off of the top two.
        "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Beatrice Evelyn Hall
        Updated for the 21st century... except if you are criticizing islam, that scares the $hii+e out of me!

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        • #19
          The founding fathers are rolling in their graves about now...
          Don't waste your time always searching for those wasted years...

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Trung Si View Post
            1. The GOP has no superdelegates, only the democrats do.
            2. Each State has it's own rule how delegates are awarded.
            3. If they would have gone to Trump you wouldn't be hearing one peep from the Trump campaign or his willfully ignorant supporters!
            Succinct post lost on the Peanut Gallery who just have no clue how "the system" works. Moreover they seem to lack even the slightest sagacity to understand that a political party is A PRIVATE ORGANIZATION who, obviously, gets to chose its own candidates. In fact, by definition a party MUST choose its candidates, and as we live in a Federal system (for the uninitiated that means we have a multiple entity government), AND as the states are sovereign bodies under that system, the political party of the states get to chose how the delegates are, well, chosen. There is no democratic or electoral requirement needed.

            Moreover, all you "outsiders" hatin' on "The Establishment" fail to understand that it is the "Establishment" which defines an actual blankety-blank political party! It is a no brainer lost on so many people (which is scary). Y'all cain't have no political party without party members! Sheesh! And these here party members are what constitutes...wait for it...the Establishment!

            Whew! Now that I have blown off some steam, lets get down to brass tacks.

            Delegates are chosen usually (does anyone appoint them anymore?) by an election. This means party yahoos from all over a given state meet at a state convention (Michigan's, e.g., was held last Saturday). Now, most of these members are part of this or that's candidates campaign (most are official party types wearing multiple hats--e.g. county commissioner and vice chair of that county's candidate A's campaign), and those who want to be candidates put themselves up for nomination, and then the other members vote on them. Now, here is where the deep dark "Establishment" conspiracies come into play. The Presidential candidates' (e.g. Trump, Cruz, Kasich, et al) people vote in a block for their preferred delegate candidate, even for those delegate-candidates who are pledged to a specific candidate for the 1st National Convention ballot. That means a "pro-Cruz" delegate may be elected to vote for Trump on the 1st ballot at the National Convention, but if that ballot does not pass with a 50%+1 majority, a second ballot is then taken, and that self-same delegate now votes for Cruz. Evil Conspiracy? Not at all. Why?

            Because the delegates were chosen by votes, and that is why Candidates must "recruit" party wigs, big and small) to support his campaign. In short, a candidate needs to have a ground game! That is why Trump is in trouble if he does not win 1,237 delegates straight out.

            Donald Trump has few "boots on the ground!" In other words, the state GOPs are giving parties, and Trump is not showing up, and Cruz can smile and say "I've got yer outnumbered! One to One!"

            "But, but... that just means "outsider" candidates can't win!" you say. And I reply, "So the Ef what! This is my party. Let the "outsiders" form their own party and nominate their own candidate."

            Ok, playing straight.

            Trump never bothered to form a ground campaign. He did not have a large campaign of managers, canvassers, volunteers, etc that it takes to get nominated and elected to office. That is the difference between him, and say, Perot, because Perot secretly worked for years forming a "ground army", and that is why he did so well in the 1992 and 1996 elections. Trump is merely relying on name recognition, but if that fails at the primaries level, he has no chance as election campaign mechanics simply do not allow for it. There is no "Plan B" for a Trump style campaign.

            Tuebor
            Last edited by Tuebor; 12 Apr 16, 23:59.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by drivin-fool View Post
              The founding fathers are rolling in their graves about now...
              Actually, they would not know what a primary election was. The notion of electing candidates by statewide popular votes (or caucuses) is a modern convention.

              Tuebor

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              • #22
                I'm getting the distinct impression that the GOP and Democrats will pick whoever the party insiders and leadership want for their candidate regardless of what anyone else wants in any case. The whole primary system seems to be just window dressing and it's obvious this time around. Obvious to the point that you might as well just say, the party bosses want this guy and that's that.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                  I'm getting the distinct impression that the GOP and Democrats will pick whoever the party insiders and leadership want for their candidate regardless of what anyone else wants in any case.
                  This is more true in the Democratic Party than the Republican. After the fiascos of George Wallace in 1972 and Jimmy Carter in 1980 the Dems decided to "regain control" of their party. Remember it is the "party insiders and leadership" that is the party; not the voters themselves.


                  The whole primary system seems to be just window dressing and it's obvious this time around. Obvious to the point that you might as well just say, the party bosses want this guy and that's that.
                  It is and it is not. Neither party likes brokered conventions, and that is why the primary system evolved. It is the preferred method for providing a nominee (as that nominee will have greater public support in the general elections). It is the "Plan A."

                  What is happening this year is that "Plan A" is not working, especially in the Republican Party. The "People" are showing that they do not know what they want. Majority rule and not plurality election is the tradition of American Politics, and so the American electorate does not like or desire plurality victors. Ergo, as there is no "victor" in the GOP primaries (or not likely to be), the Party must then go to "Plan B" which is a brokered convention, and for the GOP, a brokered convention, despite its many many downfalls, is looking to be preferred to a Trump candidature. The latter would seriously damage the GOP for many election cycles to come. Better a one time loss than a decade or more of losses.

                  There is increasing talk among insiders and party hacks that Trump and Cruz Campaigns will make them selves so obnoxious and hated at the Convention that neither will not appear on the ballot!

                  As for the Democrats, Hillary still leads even without Super delegates, and she is set to win big in New York (lots o delegates). So for all the talk of Superdelegates and Sanders' uprising, he is unlikely to win even the so called "popular vote."

                  Tuebor

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                  • #24
                    Actually, I think "the people" are showing exactly what they want this primary season.

                    And, that is, an authentic candidate that resonates with them not a bunch of Washington insiders like Clinton or Cruz.
                    For the Left, Sanders is the real deal. For the Right Trump is better than nothing. That's Trump's real problem. He's a half-assed candidate.
                    Clinton is only in the position she's in because the party insiders support her 100%.

                    When it comes to polls, they really tell the story. The Right supports Trump mostly out of revolt against the GOP establishment. The soft Left supports Clinton because she's a party hack.
                    Sanders is the hard Left's darling and the GOP insiders are leaning to Cruz as he's all they've got.
                    The 50% in the middle are planning to vote against either Trump or Clinton, depending on which side of Center they fall.

                    Between now and November what will really determine the election isn't which candidate is a better choice or the one voters agree with, but which one has less dirt and F*[email protected] up less campaigning.

                    Hillary has a mountain of dirt to try to avoid compared to Trump or Cruz.
                    Cruz is an ass and that won't help him one iota.
                    Trump is a loon and could as easily bury Hillary as hand her the election with something he does or says.
                    The media is in Hillary's pocket, but I think most people already kind of get that so they don't have the clout they think they do.


                    Anyway, that's what I see.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Steve573 View Post
                      ...That looks like his kitchen, not a polling place...
                      Yep. He says, "Well, I'm back home..."

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Konzev View Post
                        GOP voters are fed up with the GOP and DEM party, because they no longer feel they are being represented by them. They view those parties as Big Money establishment.
                        What infuriated them in Colorado, was the fact, the before the vote was out, all GOP superdelegates went into the Cruz camp.
                        Here is what a Donald Trump supporter did:


                        Cruz worked Colorado. Trump didn't even attend the state convention. There was no vote.

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