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  • #46
    Originally posted by dmf01 View Post
    Lots of anti-Semites would be shocked to know that Jesus was a Jew
    Or that he does my landscape maintenance...

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    • #47
      Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
      Or that he does my landscape maintenance...

      Ah, but do you 1099 him?

      Credo quia absurdum.


      Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Michele View Post
        I don't know about the specific claim, but in general, that is entirely true - who wouldn't say that potatoes are typical Irish or German fare? And yet they come from another continent. Some Americans I met were convinced that pizza was a local dish.
        Local to where: to Italy, to Udine, or to North America?

        Originally posted by Michele View Post
        Instead, it's Neapolitan.
        I've heard variously that the first pizza pre-tomato came from Greece, and the first tomato pizza from Sicily.

        Originally posted by Michele View Post
        And today most pizza bakers around here are Albanians.
        'Round here they're either Greek or Mexican.

        Reminds me of an incident I witnessed many years ago: pizzeria on Broadway and 86th was owned by a Greek, managed by his son, but really run by a Mexican. The son was an abusive little sht, and was always rude towards the Mexican, without whom the place would have fallen apart. So one day the spoiled Greek son and the Mexican help exchanged words, with the Greek always referring to the Mexican as "Chico," to whit the Mexican responded, "my name is not Chico." The Greek shot back, "no, it's μαλάκας." Typical Greek.

        Strangely, the pizza for which New York is known is Neapolitan, on account of the first pizzerias were founded by Napolitani. When I was growing up in 1970s heavily Siciliani Bushwick, however, thick Sicilian pizza was far and away the favorite. Still my favorite to this day -- with the exception of the Greek Singas pizza in Queens NY. The crust is like a pastry, lightly seared: can't be beat. As Singas' owner put it, "pizza is something that transcends cultures and ages."

        http://www.totonnosconeyisland.com/about-us.html
        http://blog.scottspizzatours.com/pos...nnaro-lombardi
        http://nymag.com/restaurants/cheapeats/2009/57894/
        http://www.firstpizza.com/
        Last edited by slick_miester; 07 Apr 16, 16:40.
        I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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        • #49



          YA ot that right.
          "Ask not what your country can do for you"

          Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

          you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
            Local to where: to Italy, to Udine, or to North America?
            The USA.


            I've heard variously that the first pizza pre-tomato came from Greece, and the first tomato pizza from Sicily.
            Don't know about the latter, but the former is an example of what we're talking about: cultural "appropriation" might be better termed as cultural transformation. Sure some form of crusty bakery product pre-existed, and there was olive oil to make it tastier and add fats, but could it be called pizza without the tomatoes?
            Note that pizza with tomatoes and cheese is a relatively recent innovation (and a a Neapolitan one, too). So, assuming you are right that the first pizza with tomatoes is Sicilian, OK - but how many people wouldn't expect pizza to be topped with some cheese too, today?
            Likewise, for all we know, in a hundred years from now the Japanese will have kept the tomatoes, but replaced the cheese topping with krill and algae salad, and that will have become a worldwide success, and nobody would then envision pizza without that.
            Michele

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Michele View Post
              The USA.
              Just to set the record straight, not all Americans are as patently stupid as those of your acquaintance. Some are, to be sure -- way too many in my view -- but not all. Perhaps Udine is Italy's hot spot for retarded tourism.



              Originally posted by Michele View Post
              Don't know about the latter, but the former is an example of what we're talking about: cultural "appropriation" might be better termed as cultural transformation. Sure some form of crusty bakery product pre-existed, and there was olive oil to make it tastier and add fats, but could it be called pizza without the tomatoes?
              Note that pizza with tomatoes and cheese is a relatively recent innovation (and a a Neapolitan one, too). So, assuming you are right that the first pizza with tomatoes is Sicilian, OK - but how many people wouldn't expect pizza to be topped with some cheese too, today?
              Likewise, for all we know, in a hundred years from now the Japanese will have kept the tomatoes, but replaced the cheese topping with krill and algae salad, and that will have become a worldwide success, and nobody would then envision pizza without that.
              I like to add little bits of sharp cheddar, Monterey Jack, and Spanish chorizo to my pizza (yeah, I make my own dough too. ) Think of it as mental patient Brooklyn pizza.

              Knowing Neapolitans, I'm sure that they stole pizza from elsewhere, likely Sicily. I thought that Napolitani invented the piano-wire garrote.

              Rimshot
              I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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              • #52
                Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                Just to set the record straight, not all Americans are as patently stupid as those of your acquaintance. Some are, to be sure -- way too many in my view -- but not all. Perhaps Udine is Italy's hot spot for retarded tourism.
                I'm aware the couple of cases I have in mind were in all likelihood extreme cases - and I quoted them as such. I actually did not meet them in person but online.

                Knowing Neapolitans, I'm sure that they stole pizza from elsewhere, likely Sicily.
                Again, that's likely, but what I said is that the addition of cheese is a recent Neapolitan innovation. Indeed it's so recent that it's in the historical record, in the 1800s, and the innovation did take place in Naples.

                https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizza_Margherita
                Last edited by Michele; 11 Apr 16, 03:51.
                Michele

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Michele View Post
                  Don't know about the latter, but the former is an example of what we're talking about: cultural "appropriation" might be better termed as cultural transformation. Sure some form of crusty bakery product pre-existed, and there was olive oil to make it tastier and add fats, but could it be called pizza without the tomatoes?
                  I thinks that happens all over, "Spaghetti Bolognese" as it is sold here, seems to have nothing at all to do with the one in Bologna,

                  and "Belgian Waffles" are in fact only sold to foreign tourists
                  Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Game.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                    Local to where: to Italy, to Udine, or to North America?



                    I've heard variously that the first pizza pre-tomato came from Greece, and the first tomato pizza from Sicily.



                    'Round here they're either Greek or Mexican.

                    Reminds me of an incident I witnessed many years ago: pizzeria on Broadway and 86th was owned by a Greek, managed by his son, but really run by a Mexican. The son was an abusive little sht, and was always rude towards the Mexican, without whom the place would have fallen apart. So one day the spoiled Greek son and the Mexican help exchanged words, with the Greek always referring to the Mexican as "Chico," to whit the Mexican responded, "my name is not Chico." The Greek shot back, "no, it's μαλάκας." Typical Greek.

                    Strangely, the pizza for which New York is known is Neapolitan, on account of the first pizzerias were founded by Napolitani. When I was growing up in 1970s heavily Siciliani Bushwick, however, thick Sicilian pizza was far and away the favorite. Still my favorite to this day -- with the exception of the Greek Singas pizza in Queens NY. The crust is like a pastry, lightly seared: can't be beat. As Singas' owner put it, "pizza is something that transcends cultures and ages."

                    http://www.totonnosconeyisland.com/about-us.html
                    http://blog.scottspizzatours.com/pos...nnaro-lombardi
                    http://nymag.com/restaurants/cheapeats/2009/57894/
                    http://www.firstpizza.com/
                    Pizza originated in Naples Marc, and you will not find Sicilian pizza in Sicily; trust me I have been in Sicily quite a few times. Additionally, that tomato soup in a bread crust that they call pizza in Chicago is not fit for a starving dog as far as I am concerned.
                    Give me a fast ship and the wind at my back for I intend to sail in harms way! (John Paul Jones)

                    Initiated Chief Petty Officer
                    Hard core! Old School! Deal with it!

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