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Trumps 'delusional' wall obsession

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  • Trumps 'delusional' wall obsession

    Hi

    One of the constants throughout Trumps presidential campaign is the unequivocal stance concerning the wall he would build along the US-Mexican border.

    His desire to build it and his many proclamations about why, how, when and cost are bleated out at almost every election rally.

    However his initial proclamation that such a wall would cost around $4Bn has slowly crept up, first to $6Bn, then $8Bn, then over $10Bn and now finally he's at around $12Bn. I wonder what it'll be come he actual race if he's nominated?
    However as various civil engineers and others with far greater insight than Trumpy have stated, the actual cost of building the wall will be around $25Bn and that's without all the other ancillary costs associated with actually buying the land (that may well be against the owners wishes), logistical infrastructure, environmental issues etc. Then on top of that you'll have the annual maintenance bill which according to some will be around the same ($25Bn) per 10yr period.

    Yet as many have noted the amount of 'illegals' coming over the border is actually small in comparison to the vast majority of illegals who become just that by overstaying their legally obtained visas! Thus were going to spend $25Bn to solve a problem that can't and won't be solved by a wall. Also a wall doesn't stop a tunnel, it only forces them deeper or make them longer (longer because the wall won't actually run along the border in large parts because of geography/geology etc, but actually inside the US). Some residents of the US will actually find themselves living in a type of DMZ-between the actual Mexican border and the wall some distance inside the US

    Also unless your going to man the wall with watchtowers, whats to stop a man with a 36Ft ladder climbing over your 35ft wall and scaling down the other side with 40ft of rope etc?

    So if Trump is serious about such a wall, maybe its time that we had a serious discussion about it, rather than Trumpy megaphone politics that are preying on peoples fears and at present are vacuous statements, devoid of detail, efficacy or rigor.

    Regards

    Andy H
    "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." Churchill

    "I'm no reactionary.Christ on the Mountain! I'm as idealistic as Hell" Eisenhower

  • #2
    Walls are usless if not manned. 25 billion means 25 billion less for the hiring border police.
    you think you a real "bleep" solders you "bleep" plastic solders don't wory i will make you in to real "bleep" solders!! "bleep" plastic solders

    CPO Mzinyati

    Comment


    • #3
      Let us start with Obama's failed "wall"

      The fence, initiated in 2005, was to be a network of cameras, ground sensors and radars that would be used to spot incursions or problems and decide where to deploy Border Patrol agents. It was supposed to be keeping watch over most of this nation's southern border with Mexico by this year.

      Instead, taxpayers ended up with about 53 miles of operational "virtual fence" in Arizona for a cost of at least $15 million a mile, according to testimony in previous congressional hearings.

      Sen. Joe Lieberman, chairman of the Senate's Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee said the SBInet concept was unrealistic from the start. Napolitano's decision "ends a long-troubled program that spent far too much of the taxpayers' money for the results it delivered," said Lieberman, I-Conn.

      The high-tech fence was developed as part of a Bush administration response to a demand for tighter border security that arose amid a heated immigration debate in Congress.

      The Bush administration awarded Boeing a three-year, $67 million contract. Then-Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said at the time the department was "looking to build a 21st century virtual fence."

      But the fence had a long list of glitches and delays. Its radar system had trouble distinguishing between vegetation and people in windy weather, cameras moved too slowly and satellite communications also were slow. Although some of the concept is in use in two sections of Arizona, the security came at too high a cost.
      http://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-ad...-border-fence/
      We hunt the hunters

      Comment


      • #4
        Thats Bush's wall. It even says so in the piece.
        you think you a real "bleep" solders you "bleep" plastic solders don't wory i will make you in to real "bleep" solders!! "bleep" plastic solders

        CPO Mzinyati

        Comment


        • #5
          You might find this of interest.

          http://www.globalsecurity.org/securi...exico-wall.htm
          Credo quia absurdum.


          Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

          Comment


          • #6
            He obsesses with the wall because it is popular with the voters.

            There's nothing else to discuss or ponder.
            Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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            • #7
              I agree that it may be fiscally irresponsible to build that wall.

              Of course, if we applied the same standard to what Hillary and Sanders are promising we would have to admit that they are even more fiscally irresponsible.
              "Free" college and more obamacare subsidies will cost far more than that wall.
              So, by the same standard we should call their promises "delusional" as well.
              Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

              Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

              Comment


              • #8
                As Chief executive it is the presidents job to enforce all laws not just the ones they agree with. Trump if elected will have the same obligation as any other president to enforce immigration law. The problem as it exists today is a result of previous administrations not enforcing the law for political reasons. A problem created over multiple generations will require time to resolve. I'm sure that despite his rhetoric Trump understands the challenge.

                The current lax system has exposed would be immigrants to criminal networks and exploitation as well as dangerous natural environments. Even after the illegal immigrants have reached relative safety they live outside the law exposing themselves to the exploitation of criminals and employers. We should never forget that it is a problem that has as much to do with the disregard for it's citizens welfare in Mexico as U.S. policy. Mexican officials benefit extensively from mass migration by relieving political tension from economically disadvantaged individuals and from the dollars sent home to Mexico to the families of those already in the U.S. Still claiming that this is a humanitarian and not an economic issue would be a distortion. Many illegal immigrants return to Mexico on a regular basis something you would not expect if they felt in danger of political persecution.

                Mexico has some of the greatest natural resources of any nation on earth but they have been squandered by an incompetent and corrupt government and a class system that has no respect for human rights. What is clear is that if Mexico was part of the U.S. it would be as rich and attractive a place to live as California. Liberals simply cannot accept that it is once again an example of socialism gone wrong and out of ignorance point the finger of shame at the U.S. . The only places where socialism is successful is in countries with fairly homogenous populations that have shared values not in diverse class ridden societies such as Mexico.

                If the wall is unrealistic it is not nearly as unrealistic as the views of Liberals on who is to blame for the mass migration out of Mexico and why the control of borders is important. As long as we allow the Mexican political elite to use the U.S. as a relief value for the pressure cooker of their evil domestic policies Mexicans will have no hope of gaining the government or life they deserve. The young men leaving the horrors of Mexico and coming to the U.S. are the only group that can force reform in Mexico.
                We hunt the hunters

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                • #9
                  I think Trump's wall idea is probably never going to become reality...there are too many roadblocks to ever make it happen.

                  The quotes by people like Vicente Fox and other Mexican officials really have no bearing on the situation in my opinion: they encourage their people to emigrate illegally to the US so their rants about it somehow being racist are something that should be ignored. Their automatic comparisons Trump=Hitler are stupid and pointless and also should be ignored by anyone who's capable of logical thought.

                  The problem is, the alternatives proposed by the liberals are basically to throw up our hands and admit defeat. We can't stop illegal immigration, so there's no point trying. We'll just call it racist to even raise the subject and leave it at that. Bernie Sanders even goes so far as to say we should go get illegal immigrants who've been deported and bring them back, probably with an apology and a check to go with it.

                  Somewhere between collapse of the southern border and loss of sovereignty and the wall is probably the right answer. Sensible people would probably say that stiff penalties, even jail time, for employers who hire illegal immigrants might actually curb some of the flow of people. I believe that might actually help, and if we need workers for some of the mythical jobs that Americans won't do we can always increase the number of legal immigrants as needed. As an aside, the liberals always use that 'jobs Americans won't do' argument and it is about 90% B.S. Most of the jobs illegals are doing are construction, factory, and farm jobs and a lot of Americans would happily do them but not for $4-5 per hour that the employers want to pay. It's a false argument because the illegals make less than the legal minimum wage, so of course if you ask an American worker if they'd work on a construction site for $5 per hour they'll say no--they can make more at McDonald's or Walmart.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by andrewza View Post
                    Thats Bush's wall. It even says so in the piece.
                    It was Obama's responsibility to enforce the law fence or no fence and much of it was built under his administration.
                    We hunt the hunters

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                    • #11
                      I'd suggest annexing Mexico and Canada and making a new United States of the Americas.

                      Then our southern border would be tiny. And it'd solve the migra problem. Yeah it'd be expensive but wouldn't it be cheaper both in lives and $$$ in the long run?
                      Credo quia absurdum.


                      Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
                        Let us start with Obama's failed "wall"



                        http://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-ad...-border-fence/
                        OLD news, He isn't running for President and promising a billion dollar wall that well do next to nothing to solve the problem
                        "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                        Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                        you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
                          I agree that it may be fiscally irresponsible to build that wall.

                          Of course, if we applied the same standard to what Hillary and Sanders are promising we would have to admit that they are even more fiscally irresponsible.
                          "Free" college and more obamacare subsidies will cost far more than that wall.
                          So, by the same standard we should call their promises "delusional" as well.
                          Free education pays for it's self in the long run with more taxable income plus more invested in the economy as a whole from the college grads that are not burdened my their school.

                          There we get a positive return on the money. The wall otoh just keeps costing
                          "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                          Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                          you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
                            Free education pays for it's self in the long run with more taxable income plus more invested in the economy as a whole from the college grads that are not burdened my their school.

                            There we get a positive return on the money. The wall otoh just keeps costing
                            If it "pays for itself", why are so many people being crushed by student loan debt? (estimated at $1.2 trillion)
                            If it the expense of college doesn't pay for itself on an individual basis, how would it pay for itself on a collective basis?

                            Of course, if we forced everyone to be an engineer, it might work out, but that isn't going to happen
                            Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                            Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
                              If it "pays for itself", why are so many people being crushed by student loan debt? (estimated at $1.2 trillion)
                              If it the expense of college doesn't pay for itself on an individual basis, how would it pay for itself on a collective basis?

                              Of course, if we forced everyone to be an engineer, it might work out, but that isn't going to happen
                              Well said!

                              Our educational system has become little more than a warehouse for those for whom there are no jobs. A degree in women's studies is not useful in anyway I can see. They should be mowing grass instead of the illegals.
                              We hunt the hunters

                              Comment

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