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"No, Mr. President, 1776 Wasn’t Anything Like Castro’s 1959 Putsch"

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Epigon View Post
    So, you honestly believe that soon-to-be-American-aristocracy/oligarchy were motivated by noble ideas and humanitarian aspects when they organised the Revolution?

    Or that the French Revolution was organised and fought by the poor?

    Or that every single revolutionary in Cuba, China, Yugoslavia, Vietnam etc. was an adherent of Marxist principles? No, poverty and existential threats, foreign presence were used as a trigger and rallying call, while ideology and power usurpation came later, after the victory.
    Triple strawman.
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    • #17
      Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
      Triple strawman.
      A philosophical hat-trick. Impressive.

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      • #18
        But not totally wrong.
        "Ask not what your country can do for you"

        Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

        you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Hanov View Post
          Classical Strawman.
          Puttin words in someones mouth to have a reason to hate.
          Oh dear....


          posted from mobile
          Yup, Obama said something so it will be attacked. Yawn. End of story.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
            Strawman? Maybe. Maobama didn't draw a direct analogy between 1776 and 1959. The article is more based on the author's interpretation of Maobama's speech, rather than the speech itself.

            However, Dear Leader did say, ”The ideals that are the starting point for every revolution... find their truest expression, I believe, in democracy.”

            So, Maobama either must think that the "ideals" that drove the American Revolution are the same as those that drove the Communist revolutions in Russia, China, Cambodia, Cuba, Zimbabwe, etc., is ignorant of the fact that the ideals are different in every revolution and that the ideals of the American revolution were antithetical to those of Communist revolutions. Private property rights and individual liberty (the pursuit of Happiness) are not among the ideals of Communist revolutions. Communism relies on the eradication of these ideals.

            Or he was just blabbing whatever popped up on the teleprompter.

            So... Was Maobama ignorant or just blabbing?
            It is a diplomatic way to say: You should turn into a DEMOCRACY. What else? You are too hateful. My 2 cents

            posted from mobile
            One death is a tragedy; one million is a statistic.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
              Strawman? Maybe. Maobama didn't draw a direct analogy between 1776 and 1959. The article is more based on the author's interpretation of Maobama's speech, rather than the speech itself.
              Since the author interprets 1959 Cuba as a 'weak democracy' I think we can discount his/her interpretations. Cuba's last remotely free election was 1948 and Batista ruled as dictator since 1954. By the author's standard the USSR was a 'weak democracy'. The only two possibilities are that: 1) the author is an idiot with zero understanding of history (distinct); or 2) the term was used in a deliberate attempt to make Castro's removal of a dictator (as opposed to the dictatorship he imposed) seem inexcusable (more likely). Either way, it speaks poorly of the intended audience.
              Human beings are the only creatures on Earth that claim a god and the only living thing that behaves like it hasn't got one - Hunter S. Thompson

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              • #22
                Well, if we're to be technical about it, there is at least ONE similarity between 1776 and 1959....both required massive support from an outside power in order to come to the desired conclusion.

                You'll live, only the best get killed.

                -General Charles de Gaulle

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                • #23
                  Sorry, Doctor, I'm with your opposition on this one. You fail to see that there was a genuine Cuban Revolution that the Castro brothers shanghaied once they arrived in Havana. But there was, and you'd do far better to decry why and how it was shanghaied instead of insisting it was leftist all along, which it certainly wasn't. In its own macabre way, your argument supports the Castro brothers version. Way to go!
                  dit: Lirelou

                  Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá gì!

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by BF69 View Post
                    Since the author interprets 1959 Cuba as a 'weak democracy' I think we can discount his/her interpretations. Cuba's last remotely free election was 1948 and Batista ruled as dictator since 1954. By the author's standard the USSR was a 'weak democracy'. The only two possibilities are that: 1) the author is an idiot with zero understanding of history (distinct); or 2) the term was used in a deliberate attempt to make Castro's removal of a dictator (as opposed to the dictatorship he imposed) seem inexcusable (more likely). Either way, it speaks poorly of the intended audience.
                    You could discount everything the author wrote, but Dear Leader Chairman Maobama said this, "The ideals that are the starting point for every revolution, America’s revolution, Cuba’s revolution, the liberation movements around the world, these ideals find their truest expression, I believe, in democracy.”
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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
                      You could discount everything the author wrote, but Dear Leader Chairman Maobama said this, "The ideals that are the starting point for every revolution, America’s revolution, Cuba’s revolution, the liberation movements around the world, these ideals find their truest expression, I believe, in democracy.”
                      So he's in Cuba saying that the Castros have spent 55 years betraying their own revolution while America has spent 240 years (well, 220 something) living up to theirs. Even better, he's saying it to the face of one of the Castros & very possibly on Cuban state TV.

                      Only someone suffering from terminal ODS could have a problem with the US President calling out Raul Castro for betraying the very thing Cuba claims to be most proud of. Only someone similarly afflicted would ignore the exquisite enjoyment of watching Raul subjected to an actual Press Conference live on State TV. Obama is humiliating the local dictator while racking up points with the other neighbours.

                      Still doesn't get yo off the hook for using a source you are smart enough to know is total shite. When you declare yourself the 'smartest guy in the room' (or something equivalent) you lose any excuses for posting such tripe.
                      Human beings are the only creatures on Earth that claim a god and the only living thing that behaves like it hasn't got one - Hunter S. Thompson

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by BF69 View Post
                        So he's in Cuba saying that the Castros have spent 55 years betraying their own revolution while America has spent 240 years (well, 220 something) living up to theirs. Even better, he's saying it to the face of one of the Castros & very possibly on Cuban state TV.

                        Only someone suffering from terminal ODS could have a problem with the US President calling out Raul Castro for betraying the very thing Cuba claims to be most proud of. Only someone similarly afflicted would ignore the exquisite enjoyment of watching Raul subjected to an actual Press Conference live on State TV. Obama is humiliating the local dictator while racking up points with the other neighbours.

                        Still doesn't get yo off the hook for using a source you are smart enough to know is total shite. When you declare yourself the 'smartest guy in the room' (or something equivalent) you lose any excuses for posting such tripe.
                        While I'm not on board with Doc on this one at all, I also think that Obama isn't calling anyone out on anything. Rather, he's reading drivel off a Teleprompter that was written for him by some mediocre speech writer he hired.
                        I wouldn't be surprised at all if he truly thought it was things like the US embargo of trade that left Cuba an economic wreck rather than a heavy handed dictatorship shoving a Communist economy down the Cuban people's throats.

                        As for humiliating? The Castro's did that pretty effectively to date with Obama. They've more than played him as a fiddle and Obama, clueless as he is, smiled and did nothing to stop or avoid the drivel that was heaped on him.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                          While I'm not on board with Doc on this one at all, I also think that Obama isn't calling anyone out on anything. Rather, he's reading drivel off a Teleprompter that was written for him by some mediocre speech writer he hired.
                          I wouldn't be surprised at all if he truly thought it was things like the US embargo of trade that left Cuba an economic wreck rather than a heavy handed dictatorship shoving a Communist economy down the Cuban people's throats.

                          As for humiliating? The Castro's did that pretty effectively to date with Obama. They've more than played him as a fiddle and Obama, clueless as he is, smiled and did nothing to stop or avoid the drivel that was heaped on him.
                          More ODS. Even better, ODS where you project your version of Obama onto actual Obama and decide its accurate.....yet again. Actually funny.
                          Human beings are the only creatures on Earth that claim a god and the only living thing that behaves like it hasn't got one - Hunter S. Thompson

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by lirelou View Post
                            Sorry, Doctor, I'm with your opposition on this one. You fail to see that there was a genuine Cuban Revolution that the Castro brothers shanghaied once they arrived in Havana. But there was, and you'd do far better to decry why and how it was shanghaied instead of insisting it was leftist all along, which it certainly wasn't. In its own macabre way, your argument supports the Castro brothers version. Way to go!
                            The Castros clearly hoodwinked us. The Eisenhower Administration initially sort of welcomed the overthrow of Batista.

                            However, Dear Leader Chairman Maobama said this:
                            The ideals that are the starting point for every revolution, America’s revolution, Cuba’s revolution, the liberation movements around the world, these ideals find their truest expression, I believe, in democracy.”


                            He didn't say that the motivations of the average Continental Soldier and Movement fighter were similar. He said "the ideals that are the starting point for every revolution, America’s revolution, Cuba’s revolution, the liberation movements around the world" were similar, if not identical. "Every revolution" would also include Russia, China, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Zimbabwe and a whole host of liberation movements that mostly just liberated the new ruling class to eradicate individual liberty.

                            Technically, the American Revolution wasn't even a "liberation movement." It was a war of secession. Liberation movements generally liberate wealth and property from a small, oppressive ruling class, for redistribution to the masses. In the cases of the Cuban and most other liberation movements, the wealth and property were just transferred from one small, oppressive ruling class to another.

                            My question still stands unanswered. Does Maobama really believe what he said? Or was he just blabbing whatever popped up on the teleprompter?
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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by BF69 View Post
                              So he's in Cuba saying that the Castros have spent 55 years betraying their own revolution while America has spent 240 years (well, 220 something) living up to theirs. Even better, he's saying it to the face of one of the Castros & very possibly on Cuban state TV.

                              Only someone suffering from terminal ODS could have a problem with the US President calling out Raul Castro for betraying the very thing Cuba claims to be most proud of. Only someone similarly afflicted would ignore the exquisite enjoyment of watching Raul subjected to an actual Press Conference live on State TV. Obama is humiliating the local dictator while racking up points with the other neighbours.

                              Still doesn't get yo off the hook for using a source you are smart enough to know is total shite. When you declare yourself the 'smartest guy in the room' (or something equivalent) you lose any excuses for posting such tripe.
                              The source is Maobama's actual words...
                              ”The ideals that are the starting point for every revolution, America’s revolution, Cuba’s revolution, the liberation movements around the world, these ideals find their truest expression, I believe, in democracy.”


                              The ideals of Communist revolution are antithetical to those of the American Revolution. This is a cold, hard fact.

                              I intentionally created a poll choice, "Maobama didn't equate America’s revolution and Cuba’s revolution," because I thought the author might have read too much into Maobama's words. However, to interpret his words as "calling out Raul Castro for betraying the" Cuban revolution, would require reading even more into Maobama's words than the author did.
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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Hanov View Post
                                It is a diplomatic way to say: You should turn into a DEMOCRACY. What else? You are too hateful. My 2 cents

                                posted from mobile
                                I don't see how Maobama's words could be interpreted that way...
                                ”The ideals that are the starting point for every revolution, America’s revolution, Cuba’s revolution, the liberation movements around the world, these ideals find their truest expression, I believe, in democracy.”


                                The ideals of Communist revolution are antithetical to those of the American Revolution. This is a cold, hard fact.

                                Technically, the US isn't even a democracy. It is a constitutional representative republic. While we maintain strong democratic processes, the framers understood that democracy was not the way to protect individual liberty.
                                Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

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