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  • A question regarding liberals and Reagan.

    I was flipping through a Time magazine (hey, waiting room and no wifi) and they had a big article on how great things were under Reagan and how the Republican Party is destroying itself. And it prompts me to ask a question (suspecting I already know the answer ). I've seen a lot of liberal Reagan love recently but did the left really like Ronald Reagan back during the 80's or are they just trying to their partisan behavior and encourage infighting now that he is no longer with us? How did they view Reagan back then?
    A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

  • #2
    Some viewed him as weak and somewhat ineffective, probably at least party because of his soft spoken voice and his trademark "Well..."

    My memory of that time is that he was seen as "fair" - not "good" and not "great".

    Of course, he looks like superman compared to the current roster of losers and snake oil peddlers.
    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Pirateship1982 View Post
      I was flipping through a Time magazine (hey, waiting room and no wifi) and they had a big article on how great things were under Reagan and how the Republican Party is destroying itself. And it prompts me to ask a question (suspecting I already know the answer ). I've seen a lot of liberal Reagan love recently but did the left really like Ronald Reagan back during the 80's or are they just trying to their partisan behavior and encourage infighting now that he is no longer with us? How did they view Reagan back then?
      It's similar to how during the 90s Bill Clinton was the anti-Christ, and then years later you have Newt talking on national television about how things were pretty good with Clinton and how things could be done (unlike the anti-Christ Obama).

      Hindsight is rose-tinted, as it were, and the bigger the time-gap the more people can approach something more objectively.

      Comment


      • #4
        No, the Left hated Reagan. They don't want a Reagan back. What they're doing is several combined propaganda techniques.

        In essence, they are using the Transfer method create cognitive dissonance by encouraging those reading the article through an appeal to fear.

        It goes something like this. Reagan is the shining example of a great Republican. This is something they hope will appeal to any Conservative reading the article. They could care less about the Progressives reading it as they aren't the ones they want to change minds.

        Reagan did great things (fill in the blank here). This is a conditioning technique to reinforce the appeal to beautiful people. That is designed to get you on board and agreeing with the article's author.

        Now we have Trump. Look at what a dork / jerk / bigot (and other ad hominems, cherry picking, half-truths, and outright lies you want to fill in here) he is by comparison. This is where the cognitive dissonance begins. The writer wants you to conclude Trump is a loser compared to Reagan.

        You're not stupid. You're smarter than that! Why would you vote for a dunderhead like Trump? A false appeal to intellect.

        Look! Trump only gets maybe a third of Republican votes. The majority of your party doesn't like him. Don't you want to be with the winners who are voting against this foul beast? Now they try to bandwagon you heaping on more ad hominems.

        So, the article appears to praise Reagan when it's real intent is to make you dislike or hate Trump. Classic propaganda...

        It's a false comparison. Trump isn't Reagan. The issues today are not the ones facing Reagan either. Now, this comparison would be more absurd if they compared Trump to say, Lincoln and argued "Trump's no Lincoln!"
        Well, we aren't involved in a bloody civil war with 19th Century values being applied to it. Nor are the economic, foreign affairs, or domestic affairs issues the same.

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        • #5
          As I recall from back then, many of the liberal/Left viewed him about the way they view Trump now. For that manner, many in the GOP thought him an outsider whom wouldn't be an asset to the party, or effective as a POTUS.
          TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
          “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz
          Present Current Events are the Future's History

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          • #6
            Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
            No, the Left hated Reagan. They don't want a Reagan back. What they're doing is several combined propaganda techniques.

            In essence, they are using the Transfer method create cognitive dissonance by encouraging those reading the article through an appeal to fear.

            It goes something like this. Reagan is the shining example of a great Republican. This is something they hope will appeal to any Conservative reading the article. They could care less about the Progressives reading it as they aren't the ones they want to change minds.

            Reagan did great things (fill in the blank here). This is a conditioning technique to reinforce the appeal to beautiful people. That is designed to get you on board and agreeing with the article's author.

            Now we have Trump. Look at what a dork / jerk / bigot (and other ad hominems, cherry picking, half-truths, and outright lies you want to fill in here) he is by comparison. This is where the cognitive dissonance begins. The writer wants you to conclude Trump is a loser compared to Reagan.

            You're not stupid. You're smarter than that! Why would you vote for a dunderhead like Trump? A false appeal to intellect.

            Look! Trump only gets maybe a third of Republican votes. The majority of your party doesn't like him. Don't you want to be with the winners who are voting against this foul beast? Now they try to bandwagon you heaping on more ad hominems.

            So, the article appears to praise Reagan when it's real intent is to make you dislike or hate Trump. Classic propaganda...
            A small point: that's not cognitive dissonance.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
              A small point: that's not cognitive dissonance.
              It is indirectly. The dissonance comes if you are a Trump supporter reading the article and like Trump and believe in his values and positions. If you also liked Reagan, the article tries to create a situation where you question Trump's values after having been presented Reagan's. In other words, the article puts your belief in Trump in question by comparison to Reagan. At least, that's the intent.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                It is indirectly. The dissonance comes if you are a Trump supporter reading the article and like Trump and believe in his values and positions. If you also liked Reagan, the article tries to create a situation where you question Trump's values after having been presented Reagan's. In other words, the article puts your belief in Trump in question by comparison to Reagan. At least, that's the intent.
                Ah, gotcha. I mistakenly thought you were saying the article was cognitive dissonance.

                Though I would say that cognitive dissonance here isn't isn't worth pointing out, since literally every written article can create cognitive dissonance in the reader. It's so universal and subjective that it can't really be used as a criticism.

                After all, if I'm trying to convince you to get a haircut at my place, I could be guilty of creating cognitive dissonance, depending on how you take it.

                "Hey man, you really need a haircut. You're hair is too long."

                "My hair is too long? That is new information which conflicts with my belief that my hair was just long enough! Oh god, the dissonance! The cognitive dissonance!"

                Anyway, enough semantics for the evening. I think the real issue is going to be that everything done by liberals against Trump is something that both sides use often and repeatedly. If it's propaganda, both sides are as guilty as the other.

                To re-use my earlier example, the GOP through Newt was doing this just a short time ago by comparing Obama to Clinton (Bill, not Hillary) by talking about how good things were under Clinton compared to Obama.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Yeah, I had a feeling this was the case.
                  A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                    No, the Left hated Reagan. They don't want a Reagan back. What they're doing is several combined propaganda techniques.

                    In essence, they are using the Transfer method create cognitive dissonance by encouraging those reading the article through an appeal to fear.

                    It goes something like this. Reagan is the shining example of a great Republican. This is something they hope will appeal to any Conservative reading the article. They could care less about the Progressives reading it as they aren't the ones they want to change minds.

                    Reagan did great things (fill in the blank here). This is a conditioning technique to reinforce the appeal to beautiful people. That is designed to get you on board and agreeing with the article's author.

                    Now we have Trump. Look at what a dork / jerk / bigot (and other ad hominems, cherry picking, half-truths, and outright lies you want to fill in here) he is by comparison. This is where the cognitive dissonance begins. The writer wants you to conclude Trump is a loser compared to Reagan.

                    You're not stupid. You're smarter than that! Why would you vote for a dunderhead like Trump? A false appeal to intellect.

                    Look! Trump only gets maybe a third of Republican votes. The majority of your party doesn't like him. Don't you want to be with the winners who are voting against this foul beast? Now they try to bandwagon you heaping on more ad hominems.

                    So, the article appears to praise Reagan when it's real intent is to make you dislike or hate Trump. Classic propaganda...

                    It's a false comparison. Trump isn't Reagan. The issues today are not the ones facing Reagan either. Now, this comparison would be more absurd if they compared Trump to say, Lincoln and argued "Trump's no Lincoln!"
                    Well, we aren't involved in a bloody civil war with 19th Century values being applied to it. Nor are the economic, foreign affairs, or domestic affairs issues the same.
                    I agree it is a form of psychological violence deployed by manipulators.

                    Have you ever had a girl friend who would try to get you to stop hanging out with a friend that doesn't like them. The conversation could go something like this.

                    GF> Frank was a really nice guy why don't you have more friends like him?

                    You> What do you mean I thought you didn't like Frank? Anyway he is on the other coast.

                    GF> You know how moody I can be you just remember the bad things I said when I was upset with Frank. I really think he was a great guy.

                    You> Ok but what do you mean I should have more friends like Frank.

                    GF> Oh you know I was thinking that Bill was not good for us, he is getting between us.

                    You> How is that?

                    GF> Bill is just not a nice person like Frank

                    You> How is not like Frank?

                    GF> I don't like the way he looks at me

                    You> I had not noticed him looking at you

                    GF> He makes me feel creepy

                    You> What are you saying you are afraid of him?

                    GF> I don't want to say anything bad about anyone but I think he may be jealous of us.

                    You> Ok I didn't really notice what you are talking about.


                    Now every time you see Bill you will be thinking how he is creepy and not a good friend like long lost Frank. It is really just a form of abuse that uses your natural decency against you by implying that if you were empathetic enough you would see the same things the abuser sees in other people.
                    We hunt the hunters

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                    • #11
                      Yeah, the California left was very anti-Reagan although most of that was a result of the seemingly disastrous Carter era. Plus, many people feared a rebirth of the supposedly extremist Goldwater Republicanism (since come somewhat true although he wasn't a fan of the 'religious right' at all) since most of his support went to Reagan as governor.
                      It's true though that hindsight lends a certain rose-colored flavor to history and looking back at Reagans presidency, he actually couldn't survive being a current era Republican as too many people would accuse him of being a RINO. Furthermore, some of his eventual policies would probably brand him as heretical to the cause and more leftist than right. Such is the curse of compromise.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by boomer400 View Post
                        Yeah, the California left was very anti-Reagan although most of that was a result of the seemingly disastrous Carter era. Plus, many people feared a rebirth of the supposedly extremist Goldwater Republicanism (since come somewhat true although he wasn't a fan of the 'religious right' at all) since most of his support went to Reagan as governor.
                        It's true though that hindsight lends a certain rose-colored flavor to history and looking back at Reagans presidency, he actually couldn't survive being a current era Republican as too many people would accuse him of being a RINO. Furthermore, some of his eventual policies would probably brand him as heretical to the cause and more leftist than right. Such is the curse of compromise.
                        I partially agree with you, I didn't much care for him when he ran and my Wife despised him, but we voted for him, Jimmy Carter was such a weakling and as an American it almost made me cry, but now we both agree that Reagan was the right man for that time!
                        Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Trung Si View Post
                          I partially agree with you, I didn't much care for him when he ran and my Wife despised him, but we voted for him, Jimmy Carter was such a weakling and as an American it almost made me cry, but now we both agree that Reagan was the right man for that time!
                          I agree, he was a great man. He broke the Soviet Union, and restored the USA after Carter (Obama I) had dragged the flag in the mud.

                          But the liberals loathed him. They called him the 'Teflon President' because nothing seemed to stick to him. Look at 80s music- there are countless snide references to him.

                          He addressed the large issues of the day, and left the law-abiding alone. Brady got shot in the assassination attempt on Reagan, but it wasn't until Slick Willie was embarrassing the office that his now-defunct gun law got sort-of pushed through.
                          Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                            I agree, he was a great man. He broke the Soviet Union, and restored the USA after Carter (Obama I) had dragged the flag in the mud.

                            But the liberals loathed him. They called him the 'Teflon President' because nothing seemed to stick to him. Look at 80s music- there are countless snide references to him.

                            He addressed the large issues of the day, and left the law-abiding alone. Brady got shot in the assassination attempt on Reagan, but it wasn't until Slick Willie was embarrassing the office that his now-defunct gun law got sort-of pushed through.
                            Mulford Act...

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                            • #15
                              Ronald Reagan: Added $1.86 trillion, 186% increase in the $998 billion debt level at the end of Carter's last budget, FY 1981.

                              That is three times as much as Obama and 80% more than even GW

                              http://useconomy.about.com/od/usdebt...-President.htm

                              He was a like able man, that showed class and acted as a gentleman, nothing like trump, but really not the great President others think.

                              I don't think that you can call a two time GOP Governor of the largest state an outsider.
                              "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                              Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                              you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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