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  • Not good news from WSJ

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ameri...050100192.html

    New report finds U.S. workers lag behind other industrial countries in using digital skills for tasks

    We don't do will in math as well.

    Is something wrong with our schools? What? How do we fix the problem. Do we need to go back to basics and the 3 R's for starts?
    "Ask not what your country can do for you"

    Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

    youíre entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ameri...050100192.html

    New report finds U.S. workers lag behind other industrial countries in using digital skills for tasks

    We don't do will in math as well.

    Is something wrong with our schools? What? How do we fix the problem. Do we need to go back to basics and the 3 R's for starts?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt_MYLfFIGs


    Warning, foul language

    Comment


    • #3
      A good place to start is with two books by Diane Ravitch:

      -Reign of Error
      -The Language Police

      There is too much mandatory testing with the test results grading the teachers. So, instead of a good, all-round education, too many teach to the test.

      Administrators are inexperienced, lack both leadership and management skills (they are not the same) and instead of being 'the teachers' teacher, like they are supposed to be, they are pitted against the teachers. I had one new principal brag about the four teachers she got rid of in her previous school. Great.

      An education degree is a soft discipline. For example, a math education degree is not as rigorous or thorough as a hard math degree. That lowers the quality of the teaching as well as what the students actually learn.

      The pursuit of excellence has in too many instances died replaced by paperwork, multiple-guess testing, and lower standards. Teachers too many times are actually not allowed to 'teach' but are being drowned in day-to-day minutiae.

      There are too many new teachers with the veterans either choosing, or being forced, to retire.

      There is an over-emphasis on paperless classrooms with laptops replacing actual books with one result being a lack of research skills.

      Would you like me to continue?
      We are not now that strength which in old days
      Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
      Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
      To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
        https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ameri...050100192.html

        New report finds U.S. workers lag behind other industrial countries in using digital skills for tasks

        We don't do will in math as well.

        Is something wrong with our schools? What? How do we fix the problem. Do we need to go back to basics and the 3 R's for starts?

        So long as our politicians see our school systems as a way to buy the political support of the teacher's unions, education in this country will be a joke.
        Every year the Chicago area is treated to a variety of teacher's strikes that we are told are "for the children". Despite this claim, no one has ever explained to me why the union's fierce opposition to any form of competition or merit raise system benefits those children.
        The unions benefit, the (dem) politicians benefit and the children are an afterthought if they are thought of at all.
        Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

        Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

        Comment


        • #5
          This is the truth...

          Originally posted by Massena View Post

          There is too much mandatory testing with the test results grading the teachers. So, instead of a good, all-round education, too many teach to the test.

          Administrators are inexperienced, lack both leadership and management skills (they are not the same) and instead of being 'the teachers' teacher, like they are supposed to be, they are pitted against the teachers. I had one new principal brag about the four teachers she got rid of in her previous school. Great.

          An education degree is a soft discipline. For example, a math education degree is not as rigorous or thorough as a hard math degree. That lowers the quality of the teaching as well as what the students actually learn.

          The pursuit of excellence has in too many instances died replaced by paperwork, multiple-guess testing, and lower standards. Teachers too many times are actually not allowed to 'teach' but are being drowned in day-to-day minutiae.

          There are too many new teachers with the veterans either choosing, or being forced, to retire.

          There is an over-emphasis on paperless classrooms with laptops replacing actual books with one result being a lack of research skills.
          Well, this time I completely agree with Massena. He couldn't have summed it up any better. The result of these practices is the dumbing/breaking down of education in the U.S. along with all its' consequences.
          ARRRR! International Talk Like A Pirate Day - September 19th
          IN MARE IN COELO

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Massena View Post
            A good place to start is with two books by Diane Ravitch:

            -Reign of Error
            -The Language Police

            There is too much mandatory testing with the test results grading the teachers. So, instead of a good, all-round education, too many teach to the test.

            Administrators are inexperienced, lack both leadership and management skills (they are not the same) and instead of being 'the teachers' teacher, like they are supposed to be, they are pitted against the teachers. I had one new principal brag about the four teachers she got rid of in her previous school. Great.

            An education degree is a soft discipline. For example, a math education degree is not as rigorous or thorough as a hard math degree. That lowers the quality of the teaching as well as what the students actually learn.

            The pursuit of excellence has in too many instances died replaced by paperwork, multiple-guess testing, and lower standards. Teachers too many times are actually not allowed to 'teach' but are being drowned in day-to-day minutiae.

            There are too many new teachers with the veterans either choosing, or being forced, to retire.

            There is an over-emphasis on paperless classrooms with laptops replacing actual books with one result being a lack of research skills.

            Would you like me to continue?
            A lot of good points, to which I would like to add a few:
            Parents of kids in many schools don't want to get involved and see the school as a daycare. They rarely volunteer at school, attend things like PTA meetings, and in some cases don't even show up for parent-teacher conferences.
            The schools have been basically ruined by the liberal mindset which emphasizes good feelings and self esteem over achievement and actually learning. The best, brightest students are often left to themselves while the attention is focused on the ones that cause problems. Rewards are for the ones that try hard, not the ones that achieve.
            I don't personally see a problem with the old complaint, teaching to the test, as long as the test is something you really want kids to learn. We need to make sure the tests are kept relevant and up to date, and by teaching kids to know what's on the tests we would be able to ensure that they all receive the basic education we want them to have. The trouble is if the test is just a bunch of useless information and we teach to that we're wasting time. I think improve the tests, make them truly reflect the standards you hope to achieve.
            If a kid doesn't pass a grade level hold them back a year. We seemed to have just about stopped doing that, in the interest once again of self esteem, so kids know they don't really have to try very hard and they'll just skate right through to graduation regardless.

            Comment


            • #7
              Zero respect and discipline in our schools. Liberalism at it's best.
              My worst jump story:
              My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
              As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
              No lie.

              ~
              "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
              -2 Commando Jumpmaster

              Comment


              • #8
                From what I've seen, having a degree in "Education" usually means the person knows about as much as someone who aced the GED test. When you have teachers that can barely do algebra, know little of science, and nothing about technology you aren't exactly going to get students who learn that stuff well either.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The schools are just a reflection of society. A sexual revolution that doesn't even want to discuss morality, a financial system based on cronyism and unrestrained exploitation of loop holes, a population which borrows beyond it's means because it has no discipline, a scientific community in which publishing is more important than the content of the research, a confusion of equality with equal rights, where civil disobedience carries no expectation of punishment, a world view where victim and righteous have become almost synonymous, where fame and reputation are confused, where who you know is more important than what you know, where verbal skills and emotional intelligence are prized above analytical skill, and most importantly where being competitive is equated with poor character.

                  The charge that we have just become less hypocritical is somewhat true but do we really want to follow the lesser angels of our nature.
                  We hunt the hunters

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I've been pretty much divorced from the American education system up close since about 1990. I can still relate to the public school system from the 50s and 60s and think they had good teachers that lived for their subject and most were able to give their knowledge to the students.

                    So there has been a big change and it looks like in general, not for the better.

                    I now have grand children in both the German and American schools. Both systems have their problems but it seems that the German schools offer more and demand more from the students, which isn't always good. 1st graders coming home with three hours worth of home work here is crazy, imo. They are still just kids. On the positive side, again imo, later they are offered more at a younger age. My grand daughter in the German school started learning English in kindergarten and French in the 5th class. They still teach Geography and geometry in the 7th class plus time for sports and music. This sounds more like the schools I went to back in the "good ole days"

                    Schools are a reflection of the population and while teacher unions are a crock, the full blame must be else were. An educated populous is our future on which we rise or fall.
                    "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                    Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                    youíre entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I read this one in a textbook on general science a few years back. The authors of the book all had master's or PhD's in education and it was intended for general science knowledge. That is, scientific knowledge anyone might know...

                      It concerned electricity and electrical power. After discussing some general electrical principles, they discussed electrical power generation going over the various methods of commercial production.
                      They then wrote that (I remember this part clearly because it was so awfully wrong)
                      "...electrical power is generated by a turbine. This is two magnets connected by a wire."

                      Well, turbines don't generate electricity, generators do. A generator at its simplest might be described as:

                      A series of coils of wire arranged around a rotating magnetic field that interacts with the coils and produces electricity by the electrical property of induction.

                      Their description was completely wrong.

                      As to homework, most US public schools today discourage homework. There seems to be a belief that either the parents will help too much or that it doesn't produce useful results by "educators." I also suspect that in some school districts the teachers / administrators don't really want the parents knowing what the kids are being taught.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Massena View Post
                        A good place to start is with two books by Diane Ravitch:

                        -Reign of Error
                        -The Language Police

                        There is too much mandatory testing with the test results grading the teachers. So, instead of a good, all-round education, too many teach to the test.

                        Administrators are inexperienced, lack both leadership and management skills (they are not the same) and instead of being 'the teachers' teacher, like they are supposed to be, they are pitted against the teachers. I had one new principal brag about the four teachers she got rid of in her previous school. Great.

                        An education degree is a soft discipline. For example, a math education degree is not as rigorous or thorough as a hard math degree. That lowers the quality of the teaching as well as what the students actually learn.

                        The pursuit of excellence has in too many instances died replaced by paperwork, multiple-guess testing, and lower standards. Teachers too many times are actually not allowed to 'teach' but are being drowned in day-to-day minutiae.

                        There are too many new teachers with the veterans either choosing, or being forced, to retire.

                        There is an over-emphasis on paperless classrooms with laptops replacing actual books with one result being a lack of research skills.

                        Would you like me to continue?
                        ^ this, excellent post. I couldent have said it better

                        In sum, there is too much focus on this "Common Core" and standardized testing, and thus teachers are basically teaching kids to pass a test rather than actually teaching them skills. When I was in K-12, especially in high school, literally everything revolved around "the test in June" ... I say this honestly when I say that we dident learn a damn thing except how to take that test. This is why so many kids have to take remedial classes in college.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It was the same way for us. Everything except history was geared toward passing the PSSA test. The only reason history was exempt was that it wasn't on the test. Every single essay I wrote in high school was in the 5-paragraph format of the test and they were keen to remind us each time. Naturally the test was used to determine school funding and teacher bonuses.
                          "Artillery lends dignity to what might otherwise be a vulgar brawl." - Frederick the Great

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Linked article in the OP mentions the report but doesn't provide a link to it, so here ( 58 page pdf link in this link);
                            http://nces.ed.gov/pubsearch/pubsinfo.asp?pubid=2016039

                            And the PIAAC;
                            http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/piaac/
                            TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
                            “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz
                            Present Current Events are the Future's History

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by frisco17 View Post
                              It was the same way for us. Everything except history was geared toward passing the PSSA test. The only reason history was exempt was that it wasn't on the test. Every single essay I wrote in high school was in the 5-paragraph format of the test and they were keen to remind us each time. Naturally the test was used to determine school funding and teacher bonuses.
                              At least you had history, here in New York there are actual and serious discussions in Albany about eliminating history classes in favor of more STEM classes

                              Comment

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