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Is this treasonous?

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  • Combat Engineer
    replied
    Originally posted by Trung Si View Post
    No that's not what I meant, I meant if he is convicted send him to GITMO where he can be among the people he wanted to be with in the first place.
    No. Federal Pen is fine. We don't do out of country prison for US Citizens.

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  • Trung Si
    replied
    Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
    Skip the whole trial thingy while we're at it.

    No that's not what I meant, I meant if he is convicted send him to GITMO where he can be among the people he wanted to be with in the first place.

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  • MarkV
    replied
    Charging him or the UK citizens with treason could have unintended legal consequences as it could be used as evidence of the USA and/or Britain recognising Daesh as a sovereign state something that they are very keen not to do. I believe the legal definition of treason involves joining with/supporting etc a state with which your country is at war. I think that to charge them with treason would require a change in the law and since the crime has already been committed and justice in both the USA and Britain is not applied retrospectively this won't work. Morally they may well be treasonous but when did law apply morally?

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  • lynelhutz
    replied
    Ya I also don't see it as comparable to the Lincoln Brigade.

    Should ISIS as an organization be considered an enemy of the State? I think the answer to that question is yes.

    Although my understanding of how it is interpreted under US law may be incomplete, it seems to fall within the definition

    Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

    (June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 807; Pub. L. 103322, title XXXIII,  330016(2)(J), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2148.)

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  • Combat Engineer
    replied
    Originally posted by Trung Si View Post
    Better still send him to GITMO!
    Skip the whole trial thingy while we're at it.

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  • Trung Si
    replied
    Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
    After he is convicted, place him in Leavenworth and put him in General Population. He won't be back on the streets.

    Pruitt
    Better still send him to GITMO!

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  • frisco17
    replied
    It absolutely is treason. His goal was to provide aid and support to an active enemy of the United States. If that isn't treason I don't know what is. This isn't comparable to the volunteers in the Lincoln Brigade or other volunteer groups. This is more like a US citizen joining the Waffen SS and being sent to the Eastern Front. He still joined a force that is an enemy of the United States, the fact that he was sent to fight on a front with no Americans is irrelevant. He could be transfered to fight elsewhere at any time and the fact that he joined in the first place obviously means he's hostile to the United States and likely wouldn't hesitate to kill Americans if he had the opportunity. Even if he never sees another American by fighting in Syria he still advances the agenda of IS which is naturally opposed to us. It's treason, clear and simple.

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  • Escape2Victory
    replied
    The UK has faced a similar debate, not with Servicemen, but approximately two Battalions worth of UK citizens leaving to sign up with ISIS. I don't really understand when they arn't charged with Treason, perhaps it is too emotive and politicians are worried about the public backlash against Muslims. Instead, where evidence has been available for those who came back to the UK, they have been charged with Terrorism offenses.

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  • Arnold J Rimmer
    replied
    Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
    After he is convicted, place him in Leavenworth and put him in General Population. He won't be back on the streets.

    Pruitt

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  • Pruitt
    replied
    After he is convicted, place him in Leavenworth and put him in General Population. He won't be back on the streets.

    Pruitt

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  • Arnold J Rimmer
    replied
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Only if he intended to fight directly against the US. If he was joining ISIS to fight in Syria or against say the Russians, then no, it is no more treasonous than joining say the Lincoln Brigade of the Spanish Civil War.

    Of course, that doesn't mean he couldn't be charged with terrorism and other legal violations however.
    Actually, the government narrowly avoided trying the Lincoln Brigade members for crimes. They were still on FBI watch lists and denied clearances into the 1970s.

    As to this guy, its not treason, but it is terrorism.

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  • T. A. Gardner
    replied
    Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
    I get your point, but the Lincoln Birgade were not fighting for a group that was openly at war with the US, (and everyone else)
    American citizens fought in the Russian Civil War and US troops were present in Moscow, Murmansk, and Vladivostok... They didn't get tried for treason...

    There are other examples. US Citizens also fought in the Mexican Revolution and with Pancho Villa who was pursued by the US Army... Same thing.

    Treason? Nah. A terrorist thug, idiot? Yea throw the book at him. He still ends up with a life sentence at the least.

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  • Urban hermit
    replied
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Only if he intended to fight directly against the US. If he was joining ISIS to fight in Syria or against say the Russians, then no, it is no more treasonous than joining say the Lincoln Brigade of the Spanish Civil War.

    Of course, that doesn't mean he couldn't be charged with terrorism and other legal violations however.
    I get your point, but the Lincoln Birgade were not fighting for a group that was openly at war with the US, (and everyone else)

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  • T. A. Gardner
    replied
    Only if he intended to fight directly against the US. If he was joining ISIS to fight in Syria or against say the Russians, then no, it is no more treasonous than joining say the Lincoln Brigade of the Spanish Civil War.

    Of course, that doesn't mean he couldn't be charged with terrorism and other legal violations however.

    Leave a comment:


  • Urban hermit
    replied
    Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
    Was he still an American citizen?
    I believe so, IMO, he committed treason.

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