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  • Is this treasonous?

    A US Air Force veteran was found guilty on Wednesday of attempting to join ISIS, according to Newsday and other local media.

    Tairod Pugh, 48, was convicted after a week-long trial in Brooklyn federal court. The case is the first in more than 75 ISIS-related prosecutions brought since 2014 by the US Department of Justice to reach a jury verdict.

    Prosecutors said Pugh immersed himself in violent ISIS propaganda for months before buying a one-way flight from his home in Egypt to Turkey, where he hoped to cross the Syrian border into territory controlled by the extremist group.

    He was detained by Turkish authorities at an Istanbul airport and eventually flown to the United States to face
    terrorism charges.

    http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News...oin-ISIS-.html
    Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
    Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

  • #2
    Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
    A US Air Force veteran was found guilty on Wednesday of attempting to join ISIS, according to Newsday and other local media.

    Tairod Pugh, 48, was convicted after a week-long trial in Brooklyn federal court. The case is the first in more than 75 ISIS-related prosecutions brought since 2014 by the US Department of Justice to reach a jury verdict.

    Prosecutors said Pugh immersed himself in violent ISIS propaganda for months before buying a one-way flight from his home in Egypt to Turkey, where he hoped to cross the Syrian border into territory controlled by the extremist group.

    He was detained by Turkish authorities at an Istanbul airport and eventually flown to the United States to face
    terrorism charges.

    http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News...oin-ISIS-.html
    Was he still an American citizen?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
      Was he still an American citizen?
      I believe so, IMO, he committed treason.
      Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
      Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

      Comment


      • #4
        Only if he intended to fight directly against the US. If he was joining ISIS to fight in Syria or against say the Russians, then no, it is no more treasonous than joining say the Lincoln Brigade of the Spanish Civil War.

        Of course, that doesn't mean he couldn't be charged with terrorism and other legal violations however.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
          Only if he intended to fight directly against the US. If he was joining ISIS to fight in Syria or against say the Russians, then no, it is no more treasonous than joining say the Lincoln Brigade of the Spanish Civil War.

          Of course, that doesn't mean he couldn't be charged with terrorism and other legal violations however.
          I get your point, but the Lincoln Birgade were not fighting for a group that was openly at war with the US, (and everyone else)
          Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
          Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
            I get your point, but the Lincoln Birgade were not fighting for a group that was openly at war with the US, (and everyone else)
            American citizens fought in the Russian Civil War and US troops were present in Moscow, Murmansk, and Vladivostok... They didn't get tried for treason...

            There are other examples. US Citizens also fought in the Mexican Revolution and with Pancho Villa who was pursued by the US Army... Same thing.

            Treason? Nah. A terrorist thug, idiot? Yea throw the book at him. He still ends up with a life sentence at the least.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
              Only if he intended to fight directly against the US. If he was joining ISIS to fight in Syria or against say the Russians, then no, it is no more treasonous than joining say the Lincoln Brigade of the Spanish Civil War.

              Of course, that doesn't mean he couldn't be charged with terrorism and other legal violations however.
              Actually, the government narrowly avoided trying the Lincoln Brigade members for crimes. They were still on FBI watch lists and denied clearances into the 1970s.

              As to this guy, its not treason, but it is terrorism.
              Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

              Comment


              • #8
                After he is convicted, place him in Leavenworth and put him in General Population. He won't be back on the streets.

                Pruitt
                Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                  After he is convicted, place him in Leavenworth and put him in General Population. He won't be back on the streets.

                  Pruitt
                  Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The UK has faced a similar debate, not with Servicemen, but approximately two Battalions worth of UK citizens leaving to sign up with ISIS. I don't really understand when they arn't charged with Treason, perhaps it is too emotive and politicians are worried about the public backlash against Muslims. Instead, where evidence has been available for those who came back to the UK, they have been charged with Terrorism offenses.
                    Ne Obliviscaris, Sans Peur

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      It absolutely is treason. His goal was to provide aid and support to an active enemy of the United States. If that isn't treason I don't know what is. This isn't comparable to the volunteers in the Lincoln Brigade or other volunteer groups. This is more like a US citizen joining the Waffen SS and being sent to the Eastern Front. He still joined a force that is an enemy of the United States, the fact that he was sent to fight on a front with no Americans is irrelevant. He could be transfered to fight elsewhere at any time and the fact that he joined in the first place obviously means he's hostile to the United States and likely wouldn't hesitate to kill Americans if he had the opportunity. Even if he never sees another American by fighting in Syria he still advances the agenda of IS which is naturally opposed to us. It's treason, clear and simple.
                      "Artillery lends dignity to what might otherwise be a vulgar brawl." - Frederick the Great

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                        After he is convicted, place him in Leavenworth and put him in General Population. He won't be back on the streets.

                        Pruitt
                        Better still send him to GITMO!
                        Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Trung Si View Post
                          Better still send him to GITMO!
                          Skip the whole trial thingy while we're at it.

                          “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                          “To talk of many things:
                          Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                          Of cabbages—and kings—
                          And why the sea is boiling hot—
                          And whether pigs have wings.”
                          ― Lewis Carroll

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Ya I also don't see it as comparable to the Lincoln Brigade.

                            Should ISIS as an organization be considered an enemy of the State? I think the answer to that question is yes.

                            Although my understanding of how it is interpreted under US law may be incomplete, it seems to fall within the definition

                            Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

                            (June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 807; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(2)(J), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2148.)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Charging him or the UK citizens with treason could have unintended legal consequences as it could be used as evidence of the USA and/or Britain recognising Daesh as a sovereign state something that they are very keen not to do. I believe the legal definition of treason involves joining with/supporting etc a state with which your country is at war. I think that to charge them with treason would require a change in the law and since the crime has already been committed and justice in both the USA and Britain is not applied retrospectively this won't work. Morally they may well be treasonous but when did law apply morally?
                              Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                              Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                              Comment

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