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Court: FBI OK to not notify of Minutemen home invasion

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  • Court: FBI OK to not notify of Minutemen home invasion

    TUCSON, Ariz. (AP) The FBI wasn't obligated to notify local law enforcement about a planned home invasion by a border vigilante group that later resulted in the deaths of a man and his young daughter in southern Arizona, a federal appeals court has ruled.

    The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in a 2-1 decision upheld a lower court's dismissal of the lawsuit brought against the FBI by the family of the victims in the deadly May 2009 home invasion in Arivaca, about 60 miles southwest of Tucson.

    The case was brought by Gina Gonzalez, the wife and mother of the victims. Gonzalez said an informant told the FBI that members of the Minutemen American Defense, an anti-illegal immigration border activist group, were plotting the home invasion. But the FBI didn't tell local authorities and therefore didn't help prevent or stop the deadly incident, she argued.

    Three masked intruders posing as law enforcement entered the Arivaca home two weeks later. They shot and killed 29-year-old Raul Flores and his daughter, 9-year-old daughter, Brisenia. Gonzalez was also shot, but she survived.
    http://bigstory.ap.org/article/a29e1...-home-invasion

  • #2
    Cover up, pure and simple, unless the Feebs were protecting an undercover asset.
    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm surprised this was the only case.

      Comment


      • #4
        I think the story is anti-Minuteman propaganda. I knew some of them and they weren't the type of people to do home invasions. To my knowledge there were zero shoot outs with them. It would've made headline news out here where they are hated by the media...

        Just saying...
        Credo quia absurdum.


        Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
          I think the story is anti-Minuteman propaganda. I knew some of them and they weren't the type of people to do home invasions. To my knowledge there were zero shoot outs with them. It would've made headline news out here where they are hated by the media...

          Just saying...
          +1!
          Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

          Comment


          • #6
            I wasn't sure what this story was supposed to be at first.

            Miniutemen?
            Oh, those guys, mostly retired military, watching the border because INS won't?

            I still don't get it, and that source looks wonky. Are they saying that the whole organization has gone Mafia now?
            "Why is the Rum gone?"

            -Captain Jack

            Comment


            • #7
              What liberals have done is used peoples basic decency against them to convince them that committing cultural suicide it the only moral course.

              It's a pretty clever trick and I'm not sure how to combat it. Unfortunately I think it backfires a bit because many people will end up deciding that being a bigot isn't so bad after all. I'm actually seeing talks by otherwise moderate conservatives about bringing back biological determinism.

              Progressives simultaneously reject the "One World Order" while supporting surrendering sovereignty to the U.N. It's another good trick because who can argue for corporate hegemony or against international cooperation. When nuanced and discriminating became dirty words conversation became difficult.

              I don't really have an opinion on this article other than that progressive share the blame for any fallout over borderless Nations. Which is of course another popular dichotomy they promote.

              Romantics are intellectually suicidal I don't think they got the real message of Romeo and Juliet.
              We hunt the hunters

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by BKnight3 View Post
                I'm surprised this was the only case.
                And why is that?
                ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

                BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

                BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
                  I think the story is anti-Minuteman propaganda. I knew some of them and they weren't the type of people to do home invasions. To my knowledge there were zero shoot outs with them. It would've made headline news out here where they are hated by the media...

                  Just saying...
                  I do not think so, this was a well known extremist group with a clearly bigoted ideology; their web site included references to "subhuman Mexicans."

                  Cited from "Right-Wing Resurgence: How a Domestic Terrorist Threat is Being Ignored" by Daryl Johnson. Rowman & Littlefield Publishers.
                  Give me a fast ship and the wind at my back for I intend to sail in harms way! (John Paul Jones)

                  Initiated Chief Petty Officer
                  Hard core! Old School! Deal with it!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bass_Man86 View Post
                    I do not think so, this was a well known extremist group with a clearly bigoted ideology; their web site included references to "subhuman Mexicans."

                    Cited from "Right-Wing Resurgence: How a Domestic Terrorist Threat is Being Ignored" by Daryl Johnson. Rowman & Littlefield Publishers.
                    Here is their website. http://baesic.net/minutemanproject/

                    There was a splinter group that tried a takeover and maybe that was where that came from. Show us where that is said please. Point is the open borders people have smeared them repeatedly. I suspect that this book that you cited is one of these. Think about it, if it was true don't you think bobo would've went after them? I've been to a meeting and saw none of that.

                    The Wiki has no references to such a incident. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minuteman_Project

                    Now if you know of my rants here you'd know that I despise racists. So show me where that is claimed and I'll never speak in a positive fashion again. But again I think its a smear job...
                    Credo quia absurdum.


                    Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bass_Man86 View Post
                      I do not think so, this was a well known extremist group with a clearly bigoted ideology; their web site included references to "subhuman Mexicans."

                      Cited from "Right-Wing Resurgence: How a Domestic Terrorist Threat is Being Ignored" by Daryl Johnson. Rowman & Littlefield Publishers.
                      Defending drug dealers now?

                      Is Albert Gaxiola an Uncle Tom for the "clearly bigoted ideology?"
                      My worst jump story:
                      My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                      As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                      No lie.

                      ~
                      "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                      -2 Commando Jumpmaster

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
                        Here is their website. http://baesic.net/minutemanproject/

                        There was a splinter group that tried a takeover and maybe that was where that came from. Show us where that is said please. Point is the open borders people have smeared them repeatedly. I suspect that this book that you cited is one of these. Think about it, if it was true don't you think bobo would've went after them? I've been to a meeting and saw none of that.

                        The Wiki has no references to such a incident. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minuteman_Project

                        Now if you know of my rants here you'd know that I despise racists. So show me where that is claimed and I'll never speak in a positive fashion again. But again I think its a smear job...
                        The BoBo government would never have set them up because we all know they never do anything wrong, think again.
                        My worst jump story:
                        My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                        As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                        No lie.

                        ~
                        "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                        -2 Commando Jumpmaster

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          As I suspected these were a splinter group.

                          Minutemen American Defense

                          Minutemen American Defense (MAD) is a militant nativist splinter group founded in the late 2000s by Forde after she left the Minutemen Civil Defense Corps. Various Forde family members and some of Forde's associates said that Forde began to rob presumed drug dealers in 2009 in hopes of raising funds to benefit her vigilante group.[29]
                          Forde claimed MAD had "about 13,000" members in a "coastal alliance."[29] However, Chuck Stonex,[by whom?] of Alamogordo, New Mexico, a former member who quit the organization after Forde's arrest, said that MAD had about 14 remaining members. He went on to say Forde termed its covert missions "Delta One Operations." Stonex said Forde intended to fund the purchase of a 40-acre (16 ha) property in southern Arizona, where she had intended to establish a base for her group's border operations.[citation needed]


                          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder...risenia_Flores

                          Edit. A splinter group of a splinter group.
                          Credo quia absurdum.


                          Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bass_Man86 View Post
                            I do not think so, this was a well known extremist group with a clearly bigoted ideology; their web site included references to "subhuman Mexicans."

                            Cited from "Right-Wing Resurgence: How a Domestic Terrorist Threat is Being Ignored" by Daryl Johnson. Rowman & Littlefield Publishers.
                            I don't think many people condone these groups.

                            The point I think most of us were trying to make is that when the proper authorities do not enforce the law people feel they are morally justified in stepping in and taking action on their own. The debate over the appropriateness of the law becomes irrelevant if the law is not being enforced because the authorities have already surrendered their moral authority. The people that oppose the law on moral grounds can opt for civil disobedience and defy the law but if the authorities do not take action against those engaged in civil disobedience they once again surrender their moral authority. If the authorities simply ignore the law then they undermine the foundation of civil conduct.

                            Illegal immigration is illegal by definition and only a very small part of it is legitimate asylum seeking. If there are crimes without punishment the very foundation of contracts between moral agents is undermined. By not punishing the illegals and the people that support them you strip away there agency by saying they could not have acted in any other way because they are too stupid to understand the law or not capable of obeying the law due to some other deficiency. If it is true that the law is immoral then the incarceration of legal citizens will shortly see it repealed. A world without punishment is a world without social contracts.

                            The moral authority of the law enforcement branch of government is not derived from interpreting or by selective administering the law but by uniform enforcement of all laws.

                            When you create a special class of people for whom the law does not apply it in effect dehumanizes them by placing them in a class in which normal human contracts do not apply. You could argue that this principle should apply to both privileged and underprivileged groups as well and in effect it does. Even in the case of the privileged if they are not held to the same legal standard as average citizens the majority will often find it morally acceptable to ignore social convention and inflict punishment that the normal authorities refused to apply.

                            Law and order is not some abstraction that you can take or leave depending on your whim but is a necessary part of any civilization. Those that advocate ignoring the law are essentially advocating the destruction of civilization and can expect the kind of uncivilized acts reported in the original post.

                            You only need to look at the wide spread criminality during prohibition to see that the consequences of irregular law enforcement are not directly linked to whether the law is moral or not. Today widespread drug use has a similar corrupting influence as people unwilling to suffer the consequences of civil disobedience simply opt to ignore the law.

                            Everyone is certainly free to advocate changes to the law and that is the purpose of free speech. What we have now is an atmosphere in which people try to silence debate by claiming the moral authority that have already destroyed by advocation unequal enforcement.
                            We hunt the hunters

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Gixxer86g View Post
                              And why is that?
                              How many bodies are in a desert?

                              Answer:

                              As many as you can dig up.

                              Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
                              Defending drug dealers now?

                              Is Albert Gaxiola an Uncle Tom for the "clearly bigoted ideology?"
                              I wouldn't like prejudicial house raids by a bunch of guys "on a hunch."

                              I'm sure the kid that died in the last raid wasn't a drug dealer.

                              Comment

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