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Judge: Apple must help US hack San Bernardino killer's phone

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  • #91
    Originally posted by Bass_Man86 View Post
    It appears that the phone in question actually belongs to San Bernardino County, and county official have already given Apple permission to unlock the phone. Apple is being cute, and arguments that they cannot unlock their own encryption are more than likely mendacious; code writers are famous for leaving themselves backdoor entrances. I am willing to bet that Apple knows exactly how to unlock that phone.
    I am inclined to agree with you, I think Apple is just digging in their heels to be contrary and to see how far they can go, this is already getting them an enormous amount of publicity.
    Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

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    • #92
      Originally posted by Bass_Man86 View Post
      It appears that the phone in question actually belongs to San Bernardino County, and county official have already given Apple permission to unlock the phone. Apple is being cute, and arguments that they cannot unlock their own encryption are more than likely mendacious; code writers are famous for leaving themselves backdoor entrances. I am willing to bet that Apple knows exactly how to unlock that phone.



      http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-w...whats-at-stake
      This will be a very interesting case.

      One side are the personal liberties and privacy folks, along with some general small government types afraid of where this will go. To them, it's an intrusion, a worrying trend, and the business argument is that it is demanding Apple make a flawed system that can be exploited by ne'er do wells.

      On the other you have the law and order types who see a big business with more money than God lawyering up and playing obstinate, trying to put itself above the law and potentially risking lives for its own bottom line.

      I think part of this will come down to who is right regarding Apple's access to the encrypted data. If Apple does have to write a new iOS with an exploitable back door, well that's risky for them.

      But so to is taking such a big public stand against a lawful request in a terrorism case. If this had been a lesser crime, they'd have more support. But there is a fine line in the public perception on whether they're standing up for their personal rights, or if they're protecting terrorists.

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      • #93
        Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
        When the next attack takes place, and it will, the same people who now side with Apple will be the first ones to ask "why did law enforcement fail to prevent this?"
        Because "we the people" are not in it to win it.
        Exactly.

        This isn't a privacy issue. It is whether a US Federal court more authority than a major corporation.

        The Feds have a legal right on several levels to access the phone. But Apple wants free advertising, and to thumb their nose at the Feds, so they drag their heels.

        And the dim-witted cheer because nothing will ever happen to them or theirs ever; they are safe forever.
        Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by Bass_Man86 View Post
          It appears that the phone in question actually belongs to San Bernardino County, and county official have already given Apple permission to unlock the phone. Apple is being cute, and arguments that they cannot unlock their own encryption are more than likely mendacious; code writers are famous for leaving themselves backdoor entrances. I am willing to bet that Apple knows exactly how to unlock that phone.



          http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-w...whats-at-stake
          Are you saying that if I own an Apple phone and I want it unlocked, Apple may provide me with the encryption code rather than unlocking it and having me generate a new password?
          I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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          • #95
            Hold the phone!
            I have to reverse myself, I took the wrong position.

            I didn't know that the Govt was demanding access codes, not to this phone, but ALL Apple Phones, including ones that might be made in the future!?!

            Screw that, stand firm Apple.
            It ain't about crime, its about power over everyone.

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            • #96
              Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
              Hold the phone!
              I have to reverse myself, I took the wrong position.

              I didn't know that the Govt was demanding access codes, not to this phone, but ALL Apple Phones, including ones that might be made in the future!?!

              Screw that, stand firm Apple.
              It ain't about crime, its about power over everyone.
              You didn't know it because its not true. The Feds are requesting a single-phone access. A key program which will allow access to all current Apple phones is due to be released later this fall.

              Core encryption has a definite shelf life. aA others have noted, there are always back doors.
              Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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              • #97
                Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                Are you saying that if I own an Apple phone and I want it unlocked, Apple may provide me with the encryption code rather than unlocking it and having me generate a new password?
                If you have a search warrant.

                The fact is that Apple can access your data anytime, anywhere.

                All the Feds want is the ability to serve a court order on a phone they have in their possession.
                Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                  If you have a search warrant.

                  The fact is that Apple can access your data anytime, anywhere.

                  All the Feds want is the ability to serve a court order on a phone they have in their possession.
                  And hasn't Apple offered to provide all the data contained within said phone? Why is that not sufficient?
                  I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                    And hasn't Apple offered to provide all the data contained within said phone? Why is that not sufficient?
                    Well, Apple has waffled at several points, claiming that they cannot fully access the data.

                    The other point is chain of custody. Extracting evidence would need to be done by officials or under strict, step-by-step supervision thereof.

                    Tens of thousands of phones are searched under warrant every year; quite possible hundreds of thousands. This is not new ground being dealt with.

                    It is akin to a court ordering you to provide a DNA sample, and your response being "I'll do it at home and bring it to you".

                    That won't fly.
                    Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                      Well, Apple has waffled at several points, claiming that they cannot fully access the data.
                      That's intolerable. Either Apple can retrieve the data, or they can't. And they can't cherrypick which duly sworn and judge-approved warrants they'll satisfy. That's nonsense.

                      That being said, if they can provide all of the device's data without sacrificing their own proprietary mechanisms, ie encryption codes, then that should satisfy the terms of the warrant, and Apple's obligations to same.

                      Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                      The other point is chain of custody. Extracting evidence would need to be done by officials or under strict, step-by-step supervision thereof.
                      That's easy: have an Apple rep go to the courthouse/police precinct house/evidence locker to retrieve the data there, under the supervision of the appropriate LE or judicial personnel.

                      Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                      Tens of thousands of phones are searched under warrant every year; quite possible hundreds of thousands. This is not new ground being dealt with.
                      If the DoJ is demanding Apple's encryption codes, then it is new. Otherwise, like you said, been there -- done that, many, many times.

                      Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                      It is akin to a court ordering you to provide a DNA sample, and your response being "I'll do it at home and bring it to you".

                      That won't fly.
                      There are Apple personnel all over the place, no doubt within an hour's drive of almost any LE facility within the Lower 48. There's no reason why -- in response to a proper warrant -- the desired data cannot be retrieved and surrendered to LE or court personnel.
                      I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                        And hasn't Apple offered to provide all the data contained within said phone? Why is that not sufficient?
                        From what I gather the big issue here is that some iPhone models were built with software that erases data after 10 failed attempts at logging in. The FBI wants Apple to 'disable' this feature so that they will be able to use their code generator software to crack the password. Instead Apple is going on and on about how the FBI wants them to give them a backdoor. AFAIK this is not about the Federal courts demanding Apple create a backdoor for law enforcement.

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                        • Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                          That being said, if they can provide all of the device's data without sacrificing their own proprietary mechanisms, ie encryption codes, then that should satisfy the terms of the warrant, and Apple's obligations to same.
                          The court specified it wanted the code to that specific phone, not a blanket access.

                          Although in a few months someone else will crack it and sell it to LE agencies. We have an upgrade contract for such things.

                          In six to eight months any LE agency with the right system and a search warrant will be able to crack the current iPhone. But the Feds don't have 6-8 months to spare in this specific case.
                          Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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                          • Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                            The court specified it wanted the code to that specific phone, not a blanket access.

                            Although in a few months someone else will crack it and sell it to LE agencies. We have an upgrade contract for such things.

                            In six to eight months any LE agency with the right system and a search warrant will be able to crack the current iPhone. But the Feds don't have 6-8 months to spare in this specific case.
                            Why don't they?
                            “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                            “To talk of many things:
                            Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                            Of cabbages—and kings—
                            And why the sea is boiling hot—
                            And whether pigs have wings.”
                            ― Lewis Carroll

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                            • Originally posted by ChrisF1987 View Post
                              From what I gather the big issue here is that some iPhone models were built with software that erases data after 10 failed attempts at logging in. The FBI wants Apple to 'disable' this feature so that they will be able to use their code generator software to crack the password. Instead Apple is going on and on about how the FBI wants them to give them a backdoor. AFAIK this is not about the Federal courts demanding Apple create a backdoor for law enforcement.
                              THat's right.
                              And given the fact that the ID and personal information on 20 million current and past Govt Employees has already been hacked, I'd say that this isn't such a great idea.
                              The Gov't own backdoor has proven to be very easy to access.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                                Why don't they?
                                Stupid question.

                                Firstly because they have a warrant now. If a homeowner defies a court order we simply crater the door and execute it; this is no different.

                                What Apple is doing is stating that that terrorist operations are to be dictated not by safeguarding lives, but by the whim of major corporations.
                                Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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