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Judge: Apple must help US hack San Bernardino killer's phone

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
    /Rant on.

    I thought that we had already decided there is no expectation of privacy on cell phones. Therefor Apple is being a and aiding those who would do us harm.

    I can't stand them for their slave labor practices. (China.) Environmental devastation.(China.) And that one of their craptops burned the Ex's house down and they refused to compensate her for the loss. (Also for the injury to one of her kids...)

    That terrorists and criminals prefer their products should tell you that they are avoiding accountability. /Rant off.
    Yes there is. The Physical phone is a thing. The constitution protects your papers, your home and your possessions. In this case that is not a question as the person that owns the 'thing' is dead.
    “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
    “To talk of many things:
    Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
    Of cabbages—and kings—
    And why the sea is boiling hot—
    And whether pigs have wings.”
    ― Lewis Carroll

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
      So, it will take 1.82 years and $56 million as the feds use government employees to do the work...
      No, they want Apple to do the work. No one else can.
      “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
      “To talk of many things:
      Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
      Of cabbages—and kings—
      And why the sea is boiling hot—
      And whether pigs have wings.”
      ― Lewis Carroll

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
        No, they want Apple to do the work. No one else can.
        Apple's saying they can't either, without writing a new version of IOS. I would think they're full of crap but they have a lot of customers complaining that some of their security features destroy phones. The one that comes to mind is the fingerprint scanner built into the home button...if you drop a new iPhone and need to have the glass replaced, the home button gets unplugged and the phone is rendered useless, forever. Apparently Apple can't bring it back to life. I think there are some flaws in their software and they are being exposed.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
          Yes there is. The Physical phone is a thing. The constitution protects your papers, your home and your possessions. In this case that is not a question as the person that owns the 'thing' is dead.
          Indeed, the problem is the fact that what they want is to be able to do this in all future cases, meaning it concerns everyone.
          Wisdom is personal

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
            /Rant on.

            I thought that we had already decided there is no expectation of privacy on cell phones. Therefor Apple is being a and aiding those who would do us harm.

            I can't stand them for their slave labor practices. (China.) Environmental devastation.(China.) And that one of their craptops burned the Ex's house down and they refused to compensate her for the loss. (Also for the injury to one of her kids...)

            That terrorists and criminals prefer their products should tell you that they are avoiding accountability. /Rant off.
            And he knocks out of the ball park!!!! Spot on! A few things to keep in mind when dealing with anything that allows you access to the internet:
            1. privacy does not exist
            2. post it once and live with it forever
            3. nothing is ever truly deleted
            Give me a fast ship and the wind at my back for I intend to sail in harms way! (John Paul Jones)

            Initiated Chief Petty Officer
            Hard core! Old School! Deal with it!

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
              No, they want Apple to do the work. No one else can.
              But, the claim was made that the government need only pay what they think the work should cost or that the government only wants the code and they'll do the work.

              My implication was that the government will either cheat Apple out of the true cost of doing the work, or the government will do it themselves at several times the true cost of Apple doing it.

              That is, the government either way will botch the job up and end up making it cost far more than it should by their incompetence.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                But, the claim was made that the government need only pay what they think the work should cost or that the government only wants the code and they'll do the work.

                My implication was that the government will either cheat Apple out of the true cost of doing the work, or the government will do it themselves at several times the true cost of Apple doing it.

                That is, the government either way will botch the job up and end up making it cost far more than it should by their incompetence.
                And if one doesn't believe the government to be competent, one might also add that Apple fears that such a "backdoor" program could end up released or exposed to the wider world.

                It seems that there are competing narratives: either Apple has the ability to break in and they're hiding it, or they don't and would have to create it.

                Comment


                • #38
                  The Obama administration is just acting on this? What fast responders.

                  Just another method to try to label it as workplace violence.
                  My worst jump story:
                  My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                  As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                  No lie.

                  ~
                  "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                  -2 Commando Jumpmaster

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                    Yes there is. The Physical phone is a thing. The constitution protects your papers, your home and your possessions. In this case that is not a question as the person that owns the 'thing' is dead.
                    Except that the BoR protects from unreasonable searches. A court order (search warrant) establishes that said search is reasonable.
                    Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                      But, the claim was made that the government need only pay what they think the work should cost or that the government only wants the code and they'll do the work.

                      My implication was that the government will either cheat Apple out of the true cost of doing the work, or the government will do it themselves at several times the true cost of Apple doing it.

                      That is, the government either way will botch the job up and end up making it cost far more than it should by their incompetence.
                      I agree, AJR idea that the government has a standard for time and man hours to re-write the IOS is silly. There is no such standard as it's never been ask before.
                      “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                      “To talk of many things:
                      Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                      Of cabbages—and kings—
                      And why the sea is boiling hot—
                      And whether pigs have wings.”
                      ― Lewis Carroll

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                        Except that the BoR protects from unreasonable searches. A court order (search warrant) establishes that said search is reasonable.
                        I don't dispute that. My reply was to the poster saying we have no expectation of privacy with our physical phones, which is of course silly, hence the need to get a warrant.
                        “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                        “To talk of many things:
                        Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                        Of cabbages—and kings—
                        And why the sea is boiling hot—
                        And whether pigs have wings.”
                        ― Lewis Carroll

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                          I don't dispute that. My reply was to the poster saying we have no expectation of privacy with our physical phones, which is of course silly, hence the need to get a warrant.
                          It was true until the last few years. Before case law changed we used to examine cell phones with impunity. Today we're ripping phones faster than we can process the data.
                          Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                            Yes there is. The Physical phone is a thing. The constitution protects your papers, your home and your possessions. In this case that is not a question as the person that owns the 'thing' is dead.
                            This is correct.
                            It is our conversations that have limited privacy.
                            Searching a phone requires a warrant.
                            Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                            Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              I wonder how much blood will be on the hands of Apple and their bosses before they are compelled to comply?
                              We are not now that strength which in old days
                              Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                              Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                              To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
                                This is correct.
                                It is our conversations that have limited privacy.
                                Searching a phone requires a warrant.
                                A very easy warrant. Phones have become so culturally embedded that the owner being arrested is general sufficient to get a warrant.

                                We've gotten warrants for phones seized from people who were simply at the scene.
                                Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                                Comment

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