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Army and Marine Corps...No Lowering Of Combat Standards

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  • #31
    Originally posted by FTCS View Post
    The Army Chief of Staff and Marine Corps Commandant have promised the Senate Armed Service Committee that they will not lower combat standers to allow women to fill combat related jobs.

    http://www.military.com/daily-news/2...nts-women.html

    Yeah, right. All it would take is a *** to become President and appoint an **** as Secretary of Defense and the new Sec Def says it's either our way or the highway. What do you think would happen?
    I may believe that coming from the USMC but the Army???? IMO 90 percent of what is wrong with todays military is at least partly attributable to Army or Air Force policies, just saying.
    Give me a fast ship and the wind at my back for I intend to sail in harms way! (John Paul Jones)

    Initiated Chief Petty Officer
    Hard core! Old School! Deal with it!

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    • #32
      And yet recently its been coming out that most of the militaries institutional problems and problems have been coming from the Air Force and Navy. Something about a lack of professionalism and discipline. Don't worry though, they're bringing in Army and Marine officers and NCOs as advisors.

      Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
      Infantry is just as important as glam units like the SEALs. Probably more so. What about tank loaders who have trouble hefting a shell? Mortar crewmen who can't carry their gear and a base plate?

      The combat arms are hard jobs. Most are very physically demanding.
      That's my other concern. It'll be an interesting day when we get assigned a female 11B. Not sure how they expect a 110lb female to toss 98.5lb 155 shells around once every 30 seconds for a sustained period of time.
      "Artillery lends dignity to what might otherwise be a vulgar brawl." - Frederick the Great

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      • #33
        Originally posted by frisco17 View Post
        And yet recently its been coming out that most of the militaries institutional problems and problems have been coming from the Air Force and Navy. Something about a lack of professionalism and discipline. Don't worry though, they're bringing in Army and Marine officers and NCOs as advisors.
        Ok, guess it's my time to sound off. I reported to precom in the late 1970's as an E-7 and had my interview with the CO. The conversation got around to the appearance of sailors. I stepped on my dick and said that I thought that the pride in the uniform went down the day Zumwalt became CNO and allowed civilian cloths aboard ship did away with liberty cards, and a few other "be nice" policies were implemented. Little did I know that the skipper served on Zumwalt's staff. Took awhile for the skipper to get over that. Now I admit that I was indoctrinated in the old Navy with Division Chief's that served during WWII and I was a "little hard-nosed". The "my-wife-she-it" special request chits from E-5's down didn't help. It was very uncommon to find anyone below E-6 married until the early 70's. I always placed the ship above everything and the men under me that were married didn't exactly agree with my policy. However, there were still some of the "old Navy" ideas floating around. The division officer for the Gunners Mate was an Ensign out of the Academy. Seems he was having a problem with one of the enlisted. Got to the point he had a discussion with him in the forward 5" handling room. Seems the kid thought he was nothing but a short fat ensign (he was solid muscle and boxed on the Academy team). Anyhoo the bars came off and there was no more problems. Word got around that one should not only not mess with the Chiefs but the Officers were not one to mess with either. I know it got back to the old man but nothing was said. I would assume that this type of "instruction" would no longer be tolerated. After I retired I found out that they did away with the O'Club, Chief's Club, and Acey/Ducey Club and opened them up. I believe the CPO initiations, and Shellback initiations are now a thing of the past. That's when I realized that the Navy had finally hit bottom and I was glad I was no longer part of the new girly Navy.
        And they wonder why discipline has gone to ****.
        Last edited by FTCS; 09 Feb 16, 13:33.
        Too Much To Do Too Little Time

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
          Infantry is just as important as glam units like the SEALs. Probably more so. What about tank loaders who have trouble hefting a shell? Mortar crewmen who can't carry their gear and a base plate?

          The combat arms are hard jobs. Most are very physically demanding.
          This is not in America, being based on my military experience in the Australian Army; however:

          I recall during my service back in the 1970's, when women transport drivers were introduced to driving and basic maintenance duties in the field and for cross-country use, on heavier vehicles; one of which was our 6-wheel-drive International trucks. On the training course, among the tasks requiring strength and heavy handling was changing a tyre. We had 4 female candidates and only one of them possessed the necessary physical power to cope with all aspects of the task. The other 3 had to have a male candidate assist them.

          After training on that day, I recall some of the discussion we had which included the question of whether we could crew a truck in the field - and especially in more remote areas - with two female soldiers. The conclusion was that 2 males, or 1 male and 1 female, were the only safe combinations.

          I'm all for gender equality but there are just some things - albeit not many - where most women will not be the physical equal of most men.

          As for selection to serve in certain "special forces" units, the only one I'm personally familiar with did apparently "experiment" with female candidates (some time after I left and returned to civilian life) and as of the last I heard, none, and I mean absolutely none, were anywhere near able to pass selection.

          Bearing in mind, that this is a selection process which is very punishing both mentally and physically such that very few men can pass anyway. I don't know what the political powers that be would suggest to "remedy" this but it seems to me that selection standards normally weeding out nearly all men would have to be lowered substantially if we want females to get in.
          Last edited by panther3485; 10 Feb 16, 05:21.
          "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

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          • #35
            The way is was...

            Time to weigh in on this topic.
            I served in the Navy about the same time as FTCS. (How ya doin' senior chief?) His comments regarding the 'old Navy' were spot on. During my time onboard USS INTREPID during the very early '70s, we had a female assigned to ship's company. Anticipating this WAVE's arrival many, many opinions were voiced. She, being the first WAVE to be assigned to shipboard duty, the Navy touted itself as being pro gender equivalent and made a big deal in the Navy Times with a photo and bio of the 'woman sailor'. Turned out she was a real stunner. She could have graced the cover of any magazine of the times and opinions changed from "not on MY ship" to things like, "I wouldn't throw her out of my berthing compartment", "I'd like to meet HER in the head some night", "I wonder how much she could make on a Med cruise?", "yeah baby!", "that did it, I'm signing on for another hitch", etc., etc., etc.
            Bottom line was that BUPERS flew her on for a photo op with the Admiral, old man and a few of the quarterdeck squids and then flew her off to her new berth at the Penatagon. (she was a YN3 and probably wouldn't have had to lift anything heavier than a ream or two of paper)
            As to females in combat roles...nah, they're just not built for it. Sorta like going 4-wheeling with a SmartCar.
            ARRRR! International Talk Like A Pirate Day - September 19th
            IN MARE IN COELO

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