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  • Left and Right

    Since this issue constantly arrises in topics regarding Europe and not only, I would like to ask those questions to US members:

    1. What is to you the Right and the Left ?
    2. What are their subdivisions ?
    There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

  • #2
    Should be interesting.
    "Ask not what your country can do for you"

    Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

    youíre entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Emtos View Post
      Since this issue constantly arrises in topics regarding Europe and not only, I would like to ask those questions to US members:

      1. What is to you the Right and the Left ?
      2. What are their subdivisions ?
      Left = Marxism and all of its flavors (socialism, democratic socialism, Communism and all other governmental systems of economic redistribution).

      Right = Laissez Faire free enterprise capitalism.

      Left vs right is a matter of government control vs individual economic liberty

      Social issues are not left or right; they grade from totalitarian to libertarian. In a Cartesian coordinate system, they would be up and down. Up being totalitarian, down being libertarian.

      Up vs down is a matter of government control vs individual social liberty.
      Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

      Comment


      • #4
        Left = Marxism and all of its flavors (socialism, democratic socialism, Communism and all other governmental systems of economic redistribution).

        Right = Laissez Faire free enterprise capitalism.
        But where is the limit ? And what is redistribution ?
        There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

        Comment


        • #5
          Okay, I'll bite:

          Social issues:

          Left: Believes the government should provide a "safety net" to everyone that includes meeting all of their basic needs "free." The government is also the protector of the public and individuals have little or no right to protect themselves as that is nothing but vigilante justice.

          Right: Individuals have a moral duty to help others but government has little role in this. Individuals have the right and responsibility to act in their own defense when necessary and the government should only be involved as a last resort.

          Economics:

          Left: The private economy, and corporations in particular, cannot be trusted to "do the right thing." Government must have close oversight of the market. It is also government's responsibility to ensure that the market place is "fair and equal." That means controlling prices and limiting profits as well as government deciding when the market needs to be moved in a particular direction.

          Right: Government's role in the market is limited to ensuring safe and open trading practices and preventing monopolies.

          Morality:

          Left: Society needs a strict moral code based on "Social and Economic Justice." That is, a code based on measurable standards such as gender, race, economic status, and education. The code should seek to eliminate all inequities between people in society by use of government standards and laws. It is justifiable that those who object to such standards should be silenced as they are bigots.

          Right: Society's moral code should allow the maximum degree of freedom for the individual but be based on a common set of values, language, and beliefs drawn from history and other social sources. Government's role is limited to ensuring that each person has the maximum freedom to express themselves however they like.

          Use of force / military:

          Left: The individual has no right to self defense or to arm themselves. Government provides this protection to society. The military is a strictly defensive force for restoring Social and Economic Justice where a state or group has stepped out of line. The military is to be used to bring those who do to "justice."

          Right: Individuals have a right to self-defense and can keep weapons with reasonable restrictions. The military is an extension of national policy to be used as a last resort.

          Basic freedoms:

          Left: The government defines and regulates these according to society's needs.

          Right: Free press, speech, religion, art, etc., are essential to society and the government can only regulate these to the least possible extent. The individual should have the maximum degree of freedom to act and pursue their life goals without government interference.

          Taxes:

          Left: Government has the power to tax and use that power to restore "fairness" to the economic status of all individuals in society. Wealthy individuals and corporations have an obligation to give far more back to society so the less wealthy have more opportunity given to them by government redistribution.
          Government can take private property for the public good at will.

          Right: Government can raise taxes but only for a public good. Government should not be taxing for the purpose of social welfare or to try and right economic injustices. Taxes apply equally to all.
          Private property is inviolate and government can never confiscate it without a very good reason and providing the owner full compensation.

          Crime and punishment:

          Left: The death penalty is evil and to be rejected in all cases. Those guilty of crimes should be rehabilitated / re-educated not punished. Onerous sentences should not be given out of compassion for criminals. They should be given a chance to rejoin society.

          Right: The death penalty is appropriate for many serious capital crimes like rape or murder and criminals should be fully punished for any crime they commit. Society should offer them a chance at rehabilitation, but they have to choose to want it.

          Education:

          Left: Everyone has a right to a "free" public / government run education that is fully government funded. That education should not just focus on essentials like reading and math, but include teaching correct social values to the students.

          Right: Education is a privilege and parents should have the right to choose where they send their children to school. Government can set some general standards that are in the interests of society at large but parents are the primary deciders of what their children will receive for an education.

          Religion:

          Left: Religion has no place in government or the public square. It should be confined to individuals and churches. Organized religion should be treated as a business would be.

          Right: Religion has a role in society and can influence government. But, organized religion and government must remain separate. Religion has a role in shaping society's values including those of government.

          Laws / legal system:

          Left: Law should have a strong political and moral conscience based on society's values and work to achieve Social and Economic Justice through fair and equal outcomes. It can at times take unequal steps towards parties in order to achieve equal outcomes.

          Right: The law is mutable and colored in shades of grey. It should change with the times but there should be strict limitations on who can do that to ensure that no one individual or group can concentrate power.

          Comment


          • #6
            Right - people who will shoot you for saying that Jesus wore sandals, and came from the Middle East, also think that problems can be solved by judicious expenditure of ammunition.

            Left - anyone who doesn't have a gun-rack on his gun-rack, anyone who accepts that Jesus wore sandals and came from the Middle East, and especially anyone who disagrees with the pronouncements of the Right.

            While this is probably exaggerated, it's the impression we get over here, certainly with the reaction to Obama, a disappointing President who might find the current direction of the Conservative Party a little uncomfortable, but wouldn't be allowed into the Labour Party were it truly socialist.

            Believe me, a lot of us are wondering if the Atlantic is wide enough.
            Indyref2 - still, "Yes."

            Comment


            • #7
              Government can take private property for the public good at will.
              Like the US Gov did under Ike with the building of the Interstate.

              Oh, Ike was a Republican, a real one.


              The death penalty is appropriate for many serious capital crimes like rape or murder and criminals should be fully punished for any crime they commit.
              Just like in all those other great country's that you admire. Iran, Saudi Arabia, China, North Korea etc.

              These are the country's that you admire and are happy that the US belongs in this list and call yourself a patriot to boot.

              Worldwide, 94 countries still have capital punishment in their lawbooks, and 37 of them currently perform executions:

              Of the 54 African countries, 36 have the death penalty, and 11 of them currently execute people (Botswana, Chad [only for terrorism], Egypt, Equatorial Guinea, Ethiopia, The Gambia, Libya, Nigeria, Somalia, South Sudan, Sudan).
              Of the 35 American countries, 19 have the death penalty, but only 2 of them (the United States and St. Kitts & Nevis) currently execute people, while the others are regarded as abolitionists or as de-facto abolitionists.
              Of the 57 Asian-Pacific countries, 37 currently have the death penalty, and 23 of them still execute people (Afghanistan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, China [not in Hong Kong and Macao], India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Japan, Jordan, Kuwait, Malaysia, North Korea, Oman, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Syria, Taiwan, T
              "Ask not what your country can do for you"

              Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

              youíre entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

              Comment


              • #8
                I did try to leave this one off the list as it really has no equal elsewhere on the political spectrum.

                The Left meets any argument or suggestion of something that disagrees with their own by either ad hominem or non-sequitur deriding it out of reflex rather than by using rational discussion.

                Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
                Like the US Gov did under Ike with the building of the Interstate.

                Oh, Ike was a Republican, a real one.
                Oh, except the Interstate highway system had to use eminent domain where private property was taken, just as public right-of-ways are done today.

                Also, the system of taxation to pay for it was devised by Democrats in Congress, not Republicans. The Republicans wanted a small tax imposed on all Americans to pay for the system as it was for the good of the public as a whole (national defense). The Democrats preferred to just tax users in a scheme similar to Social Security putting the heaviest taxes on commercial road users and the middle class as a result.

                The Clay plan was a flop. Even the President's Republican allies in Congress gave only token support to the plan, which tied up the gas tax for 30 years to repay the bonds, including $12 billion in interest. As Congress searched for an alternative financing plan in 1955, the highway-related interests that supported the Interstate System agreed on only one thing-they didn't want to pay for it. Why, they wanted to know, should highway users pay for a highway network that would benefit the entire country, not just motorists?

                Legislation failed in 1955 because of the financing issue, but over the winter, supporters realized they would have to compromise to get the highways they wanted. With tax compromises in place, the final bill moved through Congress with little controversy in 1956. It combined features from a bill drafted by Senator Al Gore, Sr. (D-Tn.), chairman of the Subcommittee on Roads and approved by the Senate in 1955 without a financing provision; a bill drafted by Representative George H. Fallon (D-Md.), chairman of the Subcommittee on Roads; and a financing mechanism drafted by Representative Hale Boggs (D-La.) of the House Ways and Means Committee. At the suggestion of Secretary of the Treasury George Humphrey, Boggs used the Social Security Trust Fund as a model for the Highway Trust Fund. Revenue from taxes on highway user products would be credited to the Highway Trust Fund for use exclusively on the Interstate System and other Federal-aid highway and bridge projects.
                http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/infrastructure/50interstate.cfm


                Just like in all those other great country's that you admire. Iran, Saudi Arabia, China, North Korea etc.

                These are the country's that you admire and are happy that the US belongs in this list and call yourself a patriot to boot.

                Worldwide, 94 countries still have capital punishment in their lawbooks, and 37 of them currently perform executions:

                Of the 54 African countries, 36 have the death penalty, and 11 of them currently execute people (Botswana, Chad [only for terrorism], Egypt, Equatorial Guinea, Ethiopia, The Gambia, Libya, Nigeria, Somalia, South Sudan, Sudan).
                Of the 35 American countries, 19 have the death penalty, but only 2 of them (the United States and St. Kitts & Nevis) currently execute people, while the others are regarded as abolitionists or as de-facto abolitionists.
                Of the 57 Asian-Pacific countries, 37 currently have the death penalty, and 23 of them still execute people (Afghanistan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, China [not in Hong Kong and Macao], India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Japan, Jordan, Kuwait, Malaysia, North Korea, Oman, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Syria, Taiwan, T
                How did this turn personal? The above is purely an ad hominem to my earlier post. I made no personal statements whatsoever in that. I simply posted up what I see as the differences between Left and Right.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The left wants to take my guns and the right wants to take my porn.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by johns624 View Post
                    The left wants to take my guns and the right wants to take my porn.
                    Hahaha you cracked me up man !
                    So well summed up!
                    That rug really tied the room together

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by johns624 View Post
                      The left wants to take my guns and the right wants to take my porn.
                      The order of confiscation is just different actually...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        TAG's definition of religion in US politics is hilarious. A cursory reading of our history will give you a far different story on religion's influence on politics in the US no matter how much TAG glides over it.

                        Thanks for the unintentional humor, TAG.
                        Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by R. Evans View Post
                          TAG's definition of religion in US politics is hilarious. A cursory reading of our history will give you a far different story on religion's influence on politics in the US no matter how much TAG glides over it.

                          Thanks for the unintentional humor, TAG.
                          I wasn't giving a dissertation on historical influence of religion on US politics. I was pointing out how the Left and Right in politics see religion as an issue.

                          I tried to address the original question, not go off on some personal tangent about any of the subjects I brought up.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            This ten minute video might help explain;
                            https://youtu.be/DioQooFIcgE

                            Additionally;
                            USA "Right" is content with equal rights and opportunities producing varied results based upon effort invested.

                            USA "Left" expects that to mean equal results to all, even if no effort is expended. Also, your "rights/freedoms" end when my feelings are hurt.
                            TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Emtos View Post
                              Since this issue constantly arrises in topics regarding Europe and not only, I would like to ask those questions to US members:

                              1. What is to you the Right and the Left ?
                              2. What are their subdivisions ?
                              To which you are referring to, USA or Europe?

                              You do realize that definition of the Left and Right is different in USA and Europe, right?

                              For example, in Germany, I think it was Bismarck who established one of first welfare states in modern Europe. Without any question, Bismarck himself was a conservative politician. In England, the necessity of national health coverage is not always roundly criticized by the conservative elements within British politics.

                              The point is, what you consider a hardcore conservative in any of European countries (yes, I know Europe isn't one gigantic monolithic country) is mostly considered a right of center, moderate Republican in USA. I seriously doubt any of European politicians could have won an election in Deep South or out in the West. They might have best luck in Northeast, but that's it.

                              US and European politics are completely in different worlds,, more like apples and oranges.
                              Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

                              "Aim small, miss small."

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