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If Trump wins primaries but the GOP establishment won't work with him, what happens?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by lodestar View Post
    Thanks, you've explained the primaries technicalities and the influence of donor well.

    However Trump's 'don't give a godamn', 'I'm on my own man/battering ram/meteorite/maverick/rugged individualist/rough diamond/ 'tell it like it is' provocateur/messiah persona (however deliberately affected it might be!) keeps gaining traction despite endless predictions he was about to disintegrate.
    His publicity stunts show no sign of ending and give him the priceless advantage of denying other runners oxygen.

    If he continues down this track what options does the GOP 'establishment' (and yes I can see it's probably not as powerful or baneful an institution as it is sometimes portrayed) have?
    If the unthinkable happens, the Establishment has to put all their resources behind Trump or live with the fact that they helped elect Hillary.

    Originally posted by lodestar
    Desperately hopes Sanders gets the Democratic nomination and people view him as a bigger loon than Trump?

    Regards lodestar
    The loon factor isn't relevant when the choice is between Harpo Marx and Karl Marx.
    Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

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    • #17
      The GOP appaers to have 'self-Trumped' theselves (sorry couldn't resist!)

      Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
      If the unthinkable happens, the Establishment has to put all their resources behind Trump or live with the fact that they helped elect Hillary.
      Well if they pour all their resources behind Trump and he barges ahead in the Presidential campaign as he has to date in the primaries, doing 'his own thing' and ignoring their advice, council and shooting from the hip (I can't believe he said that!), Palin at his side what the heck do the conventional Republican figures do?

      Won't they just look ridiculous to their constituencies if they try and mouth 'Trumpisms' and thereby seriously damage their own reps?

      As Henry Ergas says Clinton would then gain an effortless, undeserved win by default and with a substantial majority of Americans thinking her she is neither honest nor trustworthy, the country would be bitterly divided?

      Regards lodestar

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by lodestar View Post
        Well if they pour all their resources behind Trump and he barges ahead in the Presidential campaign as he has to date in the primaries, doing 'his own thing' and ignoring their advice, council and shooting from the hip (I can't believe he said that!), Palin at his side what the heck do the conventional Republican figures do?

        Won't they just look ridiculous to their constituencies if they try and mouth 'Trumpisms' and thereby seriously damage their own reps?

        As Henry Ergas says Clinton would then gain an effortless, undeserved win by default and with a substantial majority of Americans thinking her she is neither honest nor trustworthy, the country would be bitterly divided?

        Regards lodestar
        If the unthinkable happens, the Establishment has to put all their resources behind Trump or live with the fact that they helped elect Hillary. The loon factor isn't relevant when the choice is between Harpo Marx and Karl Marx.
        Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

        Comment


        • #19
          A blogger that I read often, Rod Dreher, on my favorite Conservative site The American Conservative asks the question: Why not Trump? http://www.theamericanconservative.c...why-not-trump/ and in another article about the Conservative Intelligentsia and the Conservative Base and how different they are http://www.theamericanconservative.c...ntelligentsia/ discusses how Trump’s followers are not ideologically pure.

          The Republican Party in going full radical Conservative in the past 20 years or so and then not getting many of its policies through Congress (perhaps to keep on having issues to appeal to its base) has upset a lot of that same base. It would have been better to have been moderately conservative and willing to compromise on some things, to have appeared to be reasonable and to try to get along with the Democrats. In the end, for short term gain, they essentially sold the party’s soul and now they have to deal with the Devil in the form of Donald Trump.

          Perhaps, Donald Trump will turn out to be more moderate than he seems (he does talk about being a negotiator) and actually not quite so bound by ideology as some of his current competitors, that he might actually make a better and more moderate President than them. I have hopes anyway. Dreher postulates that the base is not so ideologically driven as the Republican theorists and pundits, and that the base may actually like a man that is upsetting the ideologues.

          I don’t think that you can appeal intellectually to a lot of us voters and Trump knows how to appeal emotionally. I, as an old Eisenhower/Rockefeller/even Richard Nixon Republican, i.e., Liberal Republican, and currently an Independent of some liberal tendencies, find Trump rather appealing, not so much for his ideology as his methods. It’s quite entertaining to watch the Western/Southern/DC Republican elite being shaken up. I am old enough to remember a milder sort of Republican Party and I would like to see Trump take us back to that.
          Last edited by Jannie; 24 Jan 16, 12:43.
          Homo homini lupus

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
            NEVER kill the taste of a good beer with a smoke.
            Corona isn't "good beer." Its...

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            • #21
              Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
              Corona isn't "good beer." Its...

              Correct, I reacted to the word Beer, did not notice the brand. Corona is the biggest marketing 'stunt' ever pulled on 10's of millions of people. Pure genius, if evil.
              “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
              “To talk of many things:
              Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
              Of cabbages—and kings—
              And why the sea is boiling hot—
              And whether pigs have wings.”
              ― Lewis Carroll

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                Correct, I reacted to the word Beer, did not notice the brand. Corona is the biggest marketing 'stunt' ever pulled on 10's of millions of people. Pure genius, if evil.
                It's actually very good in the short brown bottles... I have only seen those in Mexico.

                Clear bottles + sunlight = Skunk p!$$
                Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Jannie View Post
                  A blogger that I read often, Rod Dreher, on my favorite Conservative site The American Conservative asks the question: Why not Trump? http://www.theamericanconservative.c...why-not-trump/ and in another article about the Conservative Intelligentsia and the Conservative Base and how different they are http://www.theamericanconservative.c...ntelligentsia/ discusses how Trump’s followers are not ideologically pure.

                  The Republican Party in going full radical Conservative in the past 20 years or so and then not getting many of its policies through Congress (perhaps to keep on having issues to appeal to its base) has upset a lot of that same base. It would have been better to have been moderately conservative and willing to compromise on some things, to have appeared to be reasonable and to try to get along with the Democrats. In the end, for short term gain, they essentially sold the party’s soul and now they have to deal with the Devil in the form of Donald Trump.

                  Perhaps, Donald Trump will turn out to be more moderate than he seems (he does talk about being a negotiator) and actually not quite so bound by ideology as some of his current competitors, that he might actually make a better and more moderate President than them. I have hopes anyway. Dreher postulates that the base is not so ideologically driven as the Republican theorists and pundits, and that the base may actually like a man that is upsetting the ideologues.

                  I don’t think that you can appeal intellectually to a lot of us voters and Trump knows how to appeal emotionally. I, as an old Eisenhower/Rockefeller/even Richard Nixon Republican, i.e., Liberal Republican, and currently an Independent of some liberal tendencies, find Trump rather appealing, not so much for his ideology as his methods. It’s quite entertaining to watch the Western/Southern/DC Republican elite being shaken up. I am old enough to remember a milder sort of Republican Party and I would like to see Trump take us back to that.
                  Is a milder sort of the GOP not something of the past? If the Democrats have ceased to be a center-left party,to become a left/ultra left party, a Liberal Republican party can not put over the helm, but only to make some small corrections = to delay the catastrophe .

                  There is no longer place for the heirs of Ford, old Bush, Dole, McCain ,etc...

                  Desperate times demand desperate solutions .

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Skoblin View Post
                    Here's a monkey drinking beer and having a smoke

                    That's.... different.

                    Cancun, eh? I wonder how soon the Chimps will start to get all the good jobs down there... darn it.
                    "Why is the Rum gone?"

                    -Captain Jack

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by ljadw View Post
                      Is a milder sort of the GOP not something of the past? If the Democrats have ceased to be a center-left party,to become a left/ultra left party, a Liberal Republican party can not put over the helm, but only to make some small corrections = to delay the catastrophe .

                      There is no longer place for the heirs of Ford, old Bush, Dole, McCain ,etc...

                      Desperate times demand desperate solutions .
                      Again a very interesting article on the American Conservative site about how Trump is more like Eisenhower than later Republicans. I personally am astonished that the author is seeing a comparison. I knew that there had to be a reason that Trump appeals to me, even if probably at a subliminal level.
                      But in ways realms different from those considered by National Review and the Beltway right-wingers, Donald Trump is a kind of conservative. In his speeches, he has tried to fill out his “Make America Great Again” slogan with some notion of what kind of society he is trying to conserve, or restore. He has talked—not very politely, but probably in the only way possible to get people to listen—about ending illegal immigration and limiting legal immigration. This is of course critical if the United States is to remain the country which it has always been, one with relatively open spaces and relatively high wages. He speaks about stopping the hemorrhage of American manufacturing jobs to China and elsewhere. Would he succeed? It’s not clear—it would certainly be difficult. But nations before have tried, and succeeded, to protect their manufacturers, and the jobs and relative social stability that go along with them. For National Review however, such policies simply are not “conservative”—and the editors mock Trump for his “threats to retaliate against companies that do too much manufacturing overseas for his taste.”

                      The society that Trump has in mind when he speaks of restoring America’s greatness is probably something like the America of the Eisenhower administration. Ike was reelected by a landslide when Donald J. Trump was ten years old. He carried New York state by 22 percent. Of course Eisenhower isn’t any sort of model for most in the conservative movement. The National Review of William F. Buckley’s era thought Ike’s administration stultifying. Conservative intellectuals railed against Ike’s readiness to accommodate itself to New Deal social legislation and his refusal to risk war by trying to liberate Eastern Europe. Eisenhower’s rule convinced Buckley’s friend Whittaker Chambers, for one, that capitalism was the losing side.

                      But a certain style of main street conservatism did thrive during the Eisenhower era. It was not revolutionary, did not look towards unleashing “democratic revolutions” in distant regions, or unraveling the regulatory chains on finance capitalism. It was devoted to bettering the lives of average Americans and practicing a strategy of containment in the Cold War. Public infrastructure was built. Industry expanded, wages grew. Married couples raised big families. Illegal aliens were deported. It was not the conservatism of the Kristols or Podhoretzes—Ike didn’t start any big wars in the Mideast or elsewhere and indeed backed the UN consensus by forcing Israel to cough up its 1956 conquests in the Sinai. Nor of the Cato Institute—taxes on the rich were high, and the government spent a lot of money on public works useful to all.
                      This is a long and quite interesting article. I enjoyed it a lot as it justifies a lot of my opinion, which has pretty much always been to take care of the US first and let the rest of the world go hang, and Trump’s plans to rebuild infrastructure definitely go along with that. After all Eisenhower built the Interstate Highway system and even if Trump only contributes to its improvement and maintenance that would be a big plus here in my state.

                      Perhaps a return to Eisenhower-style conservatism is wishful thinking, but it will in all likelihood get a wishful vote from me, at least in the Missouri Primary and maybe in the General Election.

                      http://www.theamericanconservative.c...ke-not-a-bush/
                      Homo homini lupus

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Reputable German news paper had Trump all over the front page yesterday. Comments where a narcissistic clown. Sounds close, sure got the narcissistic part for sure.
                        "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                        Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                        you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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                        • #27
                          lodestar says Trump an American Silvio Berlusconi. Ergo ......?

                          Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
                          Reputable German news paper had Trump all over the front page yesterday. Comments where a narcissistic clown. Sounds close, sure got the narcissistic part for sure.
                          lodestar says Trump an American Silvio Berlusconi. Ergo ......?
                          All polis are narcissistic.
                          lodestar knows much about narcissism.

                          Trump is at least is honest about being so and has been called a clown since the 1980's.
                          I bet he must have lost a lot of sleep and spent a lot of time wishing he could change.

                          The point is at this stage what he's doing is working.
                          He's America's Silvio Berlusconi without the sex scandals and booze etc .
                          He's essentially a populist demagogue giving a finger to the status-quo.
                          Right man for American's umpteenth 'troubled times'.

                          .
                          Americans just need to get used to his style as a candidate.

                          lodestar was neither liked nor trusted. Not by those who raised him, those he grew up with and went to school with, those he worked with and associated with as an adult, nor those who know him now.
                          One woman told him she felt uneasy around him because: 'Your eyes are the colour of dirty coins.'


                          Regards lodestar

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by lodestar View Post
                            [...]

                            The point is at this stage what he's doing is working.
                            He's America's Silvio Berlusconi without the sex scandals and booze etc .
                            He's essentially a populist demagogue giving a finger to the status-quo.
                            Right man for American's umpteenth 'troubled times'.

                            .
                            [...]
                            Lodestar gets it...
                            Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

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                            • #29
                              lodestar in charge of 'IT'

                              Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
                              Lodestar gets it...
                              GETS IT???!!!
                              lodestar NEVER NEEDS TO 'GET' ANYTHING!!!
                              lodestar CREATES IT!
                              lodestar IS IN COMPLETE CHARGE OF IT!
                              lodestar waits for others to get it!!
                              THERE IS NO IT WITHOUT lodestar!

                              and here's a couple of handy life tips from the master:

                              STOP nosey neighbours from knowing which room you're in by stealthily crawling around the house on all fours.

                              OLD telephone directories make ideal personal address books.
                              Simply cross out the names and address of people you don't know.


                              Regards lodestar

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
                                Like beer... Sausages are proof that God loves us...

                                Indeed, and so is a nice plate of spaghetti with some hot Italian sausage, a crunchy loaf of bread a bottle of red wine, preferably Montepulciano D'Abruzzo!
                                Give me a fast ship and the wind at my back for I intend to sail in harms way! (John Paul Jones)

                                Initiated Chief Petty Officer
                                Hard core! Old School! Deal with it!

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