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  • US plans $4bn for self-driving rules

    Four billion dollars of our tax money spent to bring self driving cars to fruition...

    A 10-year, $4bn (2.8bn) proposal to bring self-driving cars to roads across the US has been announced by the Department of Transportation.
    The plan's stated aim is to implement consistent laws across all states and eventually to eliminate human error.
    "That is a possibility worth pursuing," said DoT head Anthony Foxx at the Detroit Motor Show on Thursday.
    The plans are backed by carmakers and technology companies including Google, Tesla, Ford, General Motors and Volvo.
    The move by the Obama administration comes after several firms complained that differing rules across the US were creating unnecessary headaches for those developing autonomous technology.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-35320177

    Now shouldn't the companies that want to sell them foot the bill? Why should we foot the bill for something that nobody wants? Much like the CA bullet train that nobody cares about...

    Why don't we spend the money in a reasonable fashion for a change?

    I've got no desire for a car that drives itself. What happens when a squirrel decides to play dodge with the car? Does it drive itself off a cliff to avoid the small, cute critter? I'm unwilling to trust a 'bot with my or my families life.

    Four billion dollars... Can we stop digging a hole for our kids???
    Credo quia absurdum.


    Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

  • #2
    Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
    Why should we foot the bill for something that nobody wants?
    Nobody wants?

    I talk to people who want this stuff all the time. Perhaps in your circles nobody wants it. IMO the sooner we get humans off the roads the better.

    Comment


    • #3
      Not me, but plenty do want it.

      At 91 yrs, my mother is resigned to not driving anymore where she lives in the big city.

      She had a drive with me about 2 months ago on quiet country roads and her lack of confidence was starting to show.

      She has never had an accident, other than a few parking scrapes, and has never received a traffic fine of any kind.

      However, she is desperately depressed about not being able to get out of the house to go to do her minimal grocery shopping or go to the local social club at night time and would dearly love to have the opportunity to have a driverless car.

      For old people, they cannot come soon enough.
      "It's like shooting rats in a barrel."
      "You'll be in a barrel if you don't watch out for the fighters!"

      "Talking about airplanes is a very pleasant mental disease."
      Sergei(son of Igor) Sikorsky, 'AOPA Pilot' magazine February 2003.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ThoseDeafMutes View Post
        IMO the sooner we get humans off the roads the better.
        I definitely would not go that far, however it's not a bad investment. If we want to save money and not ruin our kid's future then we need to look at the military industrial complex.
        "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
        - Benjamin Franklin

        The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by At ease View Post
          For old people, they cannot come soon enough.
          The "people who can't drive for various reasons" use case is actually one of the last ones it will fill, because for initial systems on roads today and in the near future, there will be legal requirements to have them manned by a fully licensed and capable driver who will be able to take over in the event of an emergency.

          Still, being able to drive to work while catching up on youtube or going on a long interstate drive alone and being able to work on your novel will be very cool. The primary motivation long term though is to make it so drunk people, sleepy people and reckless/terrible drivers aren't causing thousands of deaths annually. Some day there will be no more dickheads failing to indicate changing lanes, forgetting they were supposed to turn there and suddenly cutting you off, learner drivers to get stuck behind on highways, and routine traffic jams. It's going to take a long time to get there.

          Comment


          • #6
            While I has cursed the average driver for much of my career, I think its a stupid investment.

            The issues operating against it are myriad, not the least of it being that it takes an average of 12 years for new safety devices on cars to become commonplace, due to the retention rate of existing cars.

            The possibility of terrorist action is enormous.

            The cost of a car would be substantially increased.

            Lastly, this would require a massive infrastructure expansion. Who is going to maintain and repair the onboard systems? How much are virus protection and software upgrades going to cost?

            Not to mention a sensory system because the car would have to be aware of its surroundings to deal with sudden changes.

            Just another pork barrel program.
            Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
              The issues operating against it are myriad, not the least of it being that it takes an average of 12 years for new safety devices on cars to become commonplace, due to the retention rate of existing cars.
              The change would be gradual, this investment is to help the technology develop and mature, not to facilitate it's instant rollout to the whole country. If you wanted to transition to an all autonomous car fleet, you would first encourage its uptake, then later on discourage regular cars, then later on mandate that no new cars may be sold without them, then, after they have become ubiquitous, you ban the usage of non-autonomous cars on public roads. It would indeed be slow, but that's good, you don't want to suddenly change everything all at once.

              The possibility of terrorist action is enormous.
              Highly speculative. In any case, the whole world is becoming more and more networked and integrated, and you can't stop progress just because the bad guy in Die Hard 4 could blow up oil pipelines with the magical powers of hack.

              The cost of a car would be substantially increased.
              Initially, yes. Eventually, not really. The cost of the computers are trivial compared to the price of cars in general, the cost of sensors is unknown but all is subject to economies of scale.

              Lastly, this would require a massive infrastructure expansion. Who is going to maintain and repair the onboard systems? How much are virus protection and software upgrades going to cost?
              The modern United States was built to a significant degree with cars in mind, and infrastructure projects don't really get much more massive than enormous networks of highways. The fact that the transportation network is going to involve significant infrastructure expenditure is pretty much a given. Roads will forever more need to be maintained by the government at various levels.

              In this instance though, the repair and maintenance of onboard systems? Um, isn't that the purview of the same people that repair them now? Maybe the local garage has an IT guy now. Yay, more jobs


              Not to mention a sensory system because the car would have to be aware of its surroundings to deal with sudden changes.
              They already do have sensors to be aware of their surroundings including sudden changes. That's really the only complexity involved in autonomous driving in fact, since otherwise it would just be using the wheels to follow GPS directions lol. They handle traffic quite well and within a couple of years may be able to handle any crazy situation you can throw at it and cope with it as well as a human driver. It's hard to say, but the tech has developed EXTREMELMY fast since the DARPA grand challenges in the mid 00's. You may not know, but it was DARPA that actually kicked off the craze with a large cash prize given to teams fro developing autonomous vehicles. It has military applications, naturally.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ThoseDeafMutes View Post
                Nobody wants?

                I talk to people who want this stuff all the time. Perhaps in your circles nobody wants it. IMO the sooner we get humans off the roads the better.
                Maybe folks in your circles want it, but not in mine.

                I understand that in Australia, one must battle leather clad, mohawk wearing raiders driving post-apocalyptic machines on the way to work.

                But we don't have that problem here. And taking away our keys will prove as easy as taking away our guns......

                Want to make the roads safer? Make it harder to get a license.
                ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

                BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

                BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Gixxer86g View Post
                  Maybe folks in your circles want it, but not in mine.

                  I understand that in Australia, one must battle leather clad, mohawk wearing raiders driving post-apocalyptic machines on the way to work.

                  But we don't have that problem here. And taking away our keys will prove as easy as taking away our guns......

                  Want to make the roads safer? Make it harder to get a license.
                  This.
                  The First Amendment applies to SMS, Emails, Blogs, online news, the Fourth applies to your cell phone, computer, and your car, but the Second only applies to muskets?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think the companies bringing these cars to the market should be charged off for the laws and regulations governing them. On the other hand, self-driving cars make considerably more sense for many uses than battery powered ones. Now, those are all but useless!

                    So long as self-driving cars aren't required or the only option, I have no problem sharing the road with them for those that want them. They make sense for many uses now filled by taxis for example. They make sense for some commercial vehicles too. I could see them as a safe alternative to busses and public transit. Something like an actually flexible and usable Personal Rapid Transit system:

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_rapid_transit

                    This could replace busses, taxis, and light fail... err... rail... systems. Better, the operators could be private firms rather than a bloated government public "corporation."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ThoseDeafMutes View Post
                      Nobody wants?

                      I talk to people who want this stuff all the time. Perhaps in your circles nobody wants it. IMO the sooner we get humans off the roads the better.


                      Easily done - put them all on bicycles or on foot. You would accept that, right?

                      Currently, most modern airliners fly up to 80% of the time without pilot input, and can even land in bad weather on autopilot. The result is pilots who get bored, use laptops, play games and even fall asleep in the cockpits. And yet autopilot failure kills the entire crew and passengers.

                      Is that what you want on the highways? A system built by man that both CAN and WILL fail periodically?

                      How about something a lot simpler and more practical? How about teaching people to drive properly, and not producing cars capable of excessive speeds? And how about actually enforcing our driving laws, including getting all the unlicensed illegals off of our highways?

                      We need to walk before we run, and $ 4 billion is a lot of money to feed BoBo's desperate ego.
                      Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
                        I definitely would not go that far, however it's not a bad investment. If we want to save money and not ruin our kid's future then we need to look at the military industrial complex.
                        You mean the thing that gives our kids a future I'm the first places same as it did for us? Yeah let's take more money from there. Its already been gutted why not finish the job and go back to being 35th, one step below Romania.

                        You want to save money go after entitlements and welfare. That's the black hole of the federal budget. At least military spending creates jobs instead of allowing people to get by without one.
                        "Artillery lends dignity to what might otherwise be a vulgar brawl." - Frederick the Great

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by frisco17 View Post
                          You mean the thing that gives our kids a future I'm the first places same as it did for us? Yeah let's take more money from there. Its already been gutted why not finish the job and go back to being 35th, one step below Romania.

                          You want to save money go after entitlements and welfare. That's the black hole of the federal budget. At least military spending creates jobs instead of allowing people to get by without one.
                          Couldn't agree more!
                          Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
                            Four billion dollars of our tax money spent to bring self driving cars to fruition...

                            A 10-year, $4bn (2.8bn) proposal to bring self-driving cars to roads across the US has been announced by the Department of Transportation.
                            The plan's stated aim is to implement consistent laws across all states and eventually to eliminate human error.
                            "That is a possibility worth pursuing," said DoT head Anthony Foxx at the Detroit Motor Show on Thursday.
                            The plans are backed by carmakers and technology companies including Google, Tesla, Ford, General Motors and Volvo.
                            The move by the Obama administration comes after several firms complained that differing rules across the US were creating unnecessary headaches for those developing autonomous technology.

                            http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-35320177

                            Now shouldn't the companies that want to sell them foot the bill? Why should we foot the bill for something that nobody wants? Much like the CA bullet train that nobody cares about...

                            Why don't we spend the money in a reasonable fashion for a change?

                            I've got no desire for a car that drives itself. What happens when a squirrel decides to play dodge with the car? Does it drive itself off a cliff to avoid the small, cute critter? I'm unwilling to trust a 'bot with my or my families life.

                            Four billion dollars... Can we stop digging a hole for our kids???
                            Waste of money for the dumb to have transportation.
                            My worst jump story:
                            My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                            As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                            No lie.

                            ~
                            "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                            -2 Commando Jumpmaster

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by frisco17 View Post
                              You want to save money go after entitlements and welfare. That's the black hole of the federal budget. At least military spending creates jobs instead of allowing people to get by without one.
                              What I don't get is why not make working for the city/ state a requirement of welfare? If you work x hours doing manual labor for the city/ state you get a check, sit on your butt you get nothing. I'm certain that we could find labor for almost all of the recipients. Hell, we could have welfare moms do daycare so others could work.
                              Credo quia absurdum.


                              Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

                              Comment

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