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  • Nikki Haley's Response to State of the Union

    Seems there's been some interest in the South Carolina governor's response, building off of previous suggestions that the GOP is grooming her for a VP run.

    Obama and Nikki Haley: in dueling speeches, a common message

    WASHINGTON — On State of the Union night, an extraordinary thing happened: The Democratic president and the Republican tasked with responding to his address issued the same message.

    On matters of policy, from the economy to education to terrorism, President Obama and Gov. Nikki Haley (R) of South Carolina predictably disagreed. But on the broader issue of the state of public discourse, and America’s increasingly diverse identity, they could have finished each other’s sentences.

    Both, in their own way, implicitly went after the loudest voice in the political arena: Donald Trump, front-runner for the Republican presidential nomination, whose calls to ban Muslims from entering the country and harsh rhetoric against illegal immigrants have dismayed both Democrats and the Republican establishment.
    Christian Science Monitor - Full Article

    Nikki Haley Called Out Donald Trump and Escaped the State of the Union Rebuttal Curse

    In the official Republican response to the State of the Union last night, South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley took a veiled jab at her party's frontrunner for the presidential nominee by calling for inclusion and mutual respect over anger and divisiveness.

    "Today, we live in a time of threats like few others in recent memory," she said, speaking from the state capital of Columbia. "During anxious times, it can be tempting to follow the siren call of the angriest voices. We must resist that temptation."

    "Some people think that you have to be the loudest voice in the room to make a difference," she added. "That is just not true. Often, the best thing we can do is turn down the volume. When the sound is quieter, you can actually hear what someone else is saying. And that can make a world of difference."

    Though the implication was inescapable, Haley confirmed this morning that her comments were indeed directed at Donald Trump.
    Vice - Full Article

    Time - Full transcripts of her speech

  • #2
    That alien Ann Coulter wasn't too pleased with the speech, however.

    Ann Coulter harshly criticizes Haley's response, says Trump should 'deport' her

    COLUMBIA, SC (WIS) -
    Conservative pundit Ann Coulter harshly criticized South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley's response to the State of the Union address on Tuesday night on Twitter.

    Trump, the front-runner for the South Carolina Republican Party Primary, has largely banked his campaign on banning all Muslims coming to the United States "until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on" in regard to terrorism and the threat of ISIS.

    Haley, meanwhile, was complimentary of the nation's continued immigration promises while asking for the issues to be fixed.

    “We must fix our broken immigration system," Haley said. "That means stopping illegal immigration. And it means welcoming properly vetted legal immigrants, regardless of their race or religion. Just like we have for centuries."
    Fox Carolina - Full Article

    Ann Coulter: Deport Nikki Haley

    Ann Coulter: Deport Nikki Haley


    Conservative commentator Ann Coulter on Tuesday night criticized South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley’s Republican response to the State of the Union in a series of tweets.

    “Trump should deport Nikki Haley,” Coulter tweeted about GOP presidential front-runner Donald Trump as the governor talked about vetting immigrants.
    Coulter continued, lambasting Haley for her stance on allowing immigrants into the country.

    Trump should deport Nikki Haley.

    — Ann Coulter (@AnnCoulter) January 13, 2016

    Nikki Haley: "No one who is willing to work hard should ever be turned away." That's the definition of open borders.

    — Ann Coulter (@AnnCoulter) January 13, 2016

    Nikki Haley says "welcoming properly vetted legal immigrants, regardless of religion." Translation: let in all the Muslims.

    — Ann Coulter (@AnnCoulter) January 13, 2016

    Hey Nikki - how can you "vet" if you can't look at religion?

    — Ann Coulter (@AnnCoulter) January 13, 2016

    Haley: Let in unlimited immigrants "just like we have for centuries." Has she read a history book? Coolidge shut it down for 1/2 a century.

    — Ann Coulter (@AnnCoulter) January 13, 2016

    Nikki Haley: "The best thing we can do is turn down the volume" Translation: Voters need to shut the hell up.

    — Ann Coulter (@AnnCoulter) January 13, 2016


    Haley is the daughter of immigrants from India. She is widely considered to be a potential vice presidential candidate this year, in part because of her response to the shooting at an African-American church in Charleston, S.C., last year.

    Haley broke with some in the Republican Party when she called for her state to stop displaying the Confederate flag.

    Coulter said that Haley was unqualified to deal with the flag because she's an "immigrant."

    "I'd really like to like Nikki Haley since she is a Republican, but on the other hand, she's an immgrant and does not understand America's history," Coulter said in July.
    The Hill - Full Article

    Comment


    • #3
      The problem with the official Republican response was it was the usual tepid and polite drivel that has driven much of Trump's popularity. Rather than hurt him, Haley's response will actually support his popularity. Those supporting Trump will point to her speech and say something like "See! This is just another Republican who is all but kneeling to the Democrats..."

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
        The problem with the official Republican response was it was the usual tepid and polite drivel that has driven much of Trump's popularity. Rather than hurt him, Haley's response will actually support his popularity. Those supporting Trump will point to her speech and say something like "See! This is just another Republican who is all but kneeling to the Democrats..."
        Problem is that Trump still represents the minority of the GOP, and his polling numbers saw their biggest boost when Carson imploded - they both shared the same angry populist segment of the GOP.

        The GOP is certainly worried that if Trump continues to polarize while leading the pack of candidates, he'll end up falling flat once he has to do more than win just Republican voters. A few months ago he was not just the most popular candidate, but also the leading "most unfavorable" candidate as well - and that's solely from within Republican ranks too.

        Nikki Haley is part of that attempt by the GOP to redefine themselves as not just a party of white guys. A bit of pandering there, of course, but it's part of the GOP's awareness that you can't just appeal to white men and expect to carry the nation in the future.

        What we are seeing now in the field is a confrontation that began years ago with the rise of the Tea Party movement: establishment moderates against anti-establishment populists, and in a wider sense the slow move by the GOP to reinvent itself.

        Trump could break the GOP.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
          Problem is that Trump still represents the minority of the GOP, and his polling numbers saw their biggest boost when Carson imploded - they both shared the same angry populist segment of the GOP.

          The GOP is certainly worried that if Trump continues to polarize while leading the pack of candidates, he'll end up falling flat once he has to do more than win just Republican voters. A few months ago he was not just the most popular candidate, but also the leading "most unfavorable" candidate as well - and that's solely from within Republican ranks too.

          Nikki Haley is part of that attempt by the GOP to redefine themselves as not just a party of white guys. A bit of pandering there, of course, but it's part of the GOP's awareness that you can't just appeal to white men and expect to carry the nation in the future.

          What we are seeing now in the field is a confrontation that began years ago with the rise of the Tea Party movement: establishment moderates against anti-establishment populists, and in a wider sense the slow move by the GOP to reinvent itself.

          Trump could break the GOP.
          As I've pointed out, the conventional wisdom with Trump isn't going to fly. He's like our local sheriff, Joe (Joke) Arpaio. He does the same sort of over-the-top nonsense and has the same sort of flamboyant style.
          While Democrats, Progressives, and Liberals hate, even despise Arpaio the man gets elected, and elected, and elected.

          I see the same thing with Trump.

          Then there's this:

          http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politi...rump/ar-CCk5kz

          About 20 percent of likely Democratic voters say they would buck the party and vote for Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump in a general election, according to a new poll.

          The willingness of some Democrats to change sides could be a major problem for Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton this fall.
          Shrillary is her own worst enemy. She's literally self defeating. I don't see Republicans voting like that for Shrillary if Trump gets the Republican nomination...

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
            As I've pointed out, the conventional wisdom with Trump isn't going to fly. He's like our local sheriff, Joe (Joke) Arpaio. He does the same sort of over-the-top nonsense and has the same sort of flamboyant style.
            While Democrats, Progressives, and Liberals hate, even despise Arpaio the man gets elected, and elected, and elected.

            I see the same thing with Trump.

            Then there's this:

            http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politi...rump/ar-CCk5kz



            Shrillary is her own worst enemy. She's literally self defeating. I don't see Republicans voting like that for Shrillary if Trump gets the Republican nomination...
            True, but that's also a reflection of the Democrats lack of leadership. Hillary should never have been given carte blanche to run considering her incredible political baggage. Whereas the GOP has too many candidates, the Dems didn't have enough - or at least enough with the ability to compete well.

            This campaign could see the Democrats run their first actual socialist, considering Hillarys poor polling numbers recently.

            Trump could still get the nod, though I think as other mainstream candidates drop out their supporters will move towards Cruz / Rubio like how Carson's moved to Trump and he will be defeated.

            However, never underestimate the power of angry white people acting in herds. And I really do hope Trump gets the nod. Nothing could make me happier than seeing the GOP start to pull itself apart between the socially conservative populists and the more fiscally focused libertarian wing.

            Still, expect the moderate establishment to strike back hard in the coming year as they whittle away the scrap and create a more focused campaign. Nikki Haley is part of that more moderate Republican wing (aka RINOs) who see undecided and non-white voters as important.

            Still, the delicious irony that the best assistance to Trump's campaign is Hillary's campaign is not lost on anyone, least of all the Democrats. Expect Sanders to see a bit more support now that his polls are up.

            The Dems might think that the best way to counter a billionaire corporate executive is a yarn-haired socialist railing against big business. And they might be right.

            Comment


            • #7
              I'll say this in response...

              I think that both major parties are having an epiphany about their politics as usual, the Republicans more so than the Democrats.

              For the Republicans it's a realization that their slightly Left of Center politics and compromise with Democrats has pretty much angered the entire Right and even much of the Center, hence why Trump is doing well.
              On the other hand, the Democrats have committed to being a party of the Progressive Left... Sander's ability to run and even do well as a Socialist is proof of this... is a total fail, even as they are oblivious to that fact.

              That "Independents" / non-aligned voters are becoming a majority, and serious majority, speaks to both party's ignorance of the electorate. Something will give and things will change. If they don't the US may well have another civil war.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                I'll say this in response...

                I think that both major parties are having an epiphany about their politics as usual, the Republicans more so than the Democrats.

                For the Republicans it's a realization that their slightly Left of Center politics and compromise with Democrats has pretty much angered the entire Right and even much of the Center, hence why Trump is doing well.
                On the other hand, the Democrats have committed to being a party of the Progressive Left... Sander's ability to run and even do well as a Socialist is proof of this... is a total fail, even as they are oblivious to that fact.

                That "Independents" / non-aligned voters are becoming a majority, and serious majority, speaks to both party's ignorance of the electorate. Something will give and things will change. If they don't the US may well have another civil war.
                You're right, but - and I don't mean this in an insulting way in the least - I think your own politics are affecting your conclusion.

                This is the part I'm referring too:

                For the Republicans it's a realization that their slightly Left of Center politics and compromise with Democrats has pretty much angered the entire Right and even much of the Center, hence why Trump is doing well.
                The best reason I could see for someone viewing the GOP as having been left of center at all in the past decade is if one is further to the right than they are aware, thus shifting the GOP's policies further to the left (relatively speaking). This is actually very normal, as most people view themselves as more "moderate" than they might be labelled by a group.

                After all, don't we all see our political views as reasonable?

                The GOP has been running a hard-line (not hard right, though) policy for near a decade at least. The Tea Party do not represent the "right" to the GOP's "centrist" policies.

                Indeed, part of this issue is that the Tea Party and the GOP (aka the mainstream Republicans) are actually not far off in terms of politics - they are all still socially conservative, fiscally conservative, "small government" types.

                What the Tea Party and populists like Trump represent isn't a shift in political dynamics. They're just hard liners - they're the no compromise, blame RINOs, ideological purity types. They're angry (with the Dems for obvious reasons, and the GOP for failing to stand up to the Dems adequately).

                Your quote above accurately represents that viewpoint, right down to anger at the GOP for compromising with the Democrats. This is a big part of why the populists are hard liners and not hard right - they see compromise as anathema to everything.

                To a Tea Party / Trump populist, you don't compromise to get things done. You double down - on the rhetoric and the politics - and demand you get your way. They're the "shut down the government" types. They're the "I'm not going to let some liberal journalist shame me for saying what needs to be said" types. They want to do what Obama did his first term with Obamacare... though they want to do it even if they can't even achieve their goals.

                That makes them uncompromising hardliners, but not radically different from the GOP establishment that you suggest are left of center / right in the middle.

                Now, I post that because I believe that, like many of your posts, you are indeed correct at a crucial level. The GOP is trying to find its way because, to be blunt, "conservatism" as an idealized Reaganist viewpoint, is failing the Republicans. Social conservatism on things like gay marriage, drug usage, etc. is on the decline. Non-white voters are becoming increasingly powerful. Too many laws that they once would have seen as apocalyptic have come into power, and the GOP can't destroy them no matter how hard they try.

                The populism of Trump is capitalizing on the anger and disconnect between the establishment GOP - who some might see as more "moderate" because they're willing to compromise to get a deal - and their base who have seen 8 years of impotence in the face of a more leftist shift in the Democratic policies. Obamacare, gay marriage, fears over Iran, American fumbling abroad... There is a lot to be angry about as a Republican, and has been for years.

                Trump is no revolution. He's just the latest iteration of the Tea Party sentiment. But that hard line stance doesn't make the GOP left of center for being willing to compromise to pass laws.

                Comment


                • #9
                  DoD, I'm very much a literalist in terms of putting political positions on a scale. Unlike the vast majority of people and scales I've seen trying to position various people and political parties on some sort of graph, I try very hard to use fixed, absolute, points of reference.
                  Thus, the hard Right is Anarchy. That is, a complete absence of government. The Left is an Absolute Dictatorship.

                  Economically, the ultimate Right is Barter, the absence of any form of economic system while the Left is a Command / Centralized Government run economy.

                  Socially, states go from valuing the individual above all else on the right to valuing the state above all else on the Left.

                  It then becomes possible to refine the position of politics, parties, an politicians to a good degree on those scales. The Republicans are Left of Center while the Democrats are now on the Left.

                  You also have to realize that the Progressive Left in America is only about 20% of the population, maybe less. They do however tend to be vocal and have gotten into many positions that allow them a voice disproportionate to their numbers, much as they have on most university campuses.

                  If there's one thing I've recognized in US politics, it's the inability of the fringes to really control things. They can get into office by misrepresenting themselves, like Obama did, but it comes back to bite them in the ass.
                  Last edited by T. A. Gardner; 13 Jan 16, 22:44.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                    DoD, I'm very much a literalist in terms of putting political positions on a scale. Unlike the vast majority of people and scales I've seen trying to position various people and political parties on some sort of graph, I try very hard to use fixed, absolute, points of reference.
                    Thus, the hard Right is Anarchy. That is, a complete absence of government. The Left is an Absolute Dictatorship.

                    Economically, the ultimate Right is Barter, the absence of any form of economic system while the Left is a Command / Centralized Government run economy.

                    Socially, states go from valuing the individual above all else on the right to valuing the state above all else on the Left.

                    It then becomes possible to refine the position of politics, parties, an politicians to a good degree on those scales. The Republicans are Left of Center while the Democrats are now on the Left.
                    Fair enough. I assumed you were using the standard definitions within mainstream political discourse and not your own system. I retract my critique.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
                      they're the no compromise
                      compromising with the Democrats.

                      compromise as anathema to everything.

                      compromise to get things done.

                      uncompromising hardliners
                      The problem with compromising is that it is always the GOP that has to give in never the Dem's. To them the only compromise is total victory. They see everything as a zero sum game where they not only have to win but the other guy has to lose.
                      Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedy. -- Ernest Benn

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Tsar View Post
                        The problem with compromising is that it is always the GOP that has to give in never the Dem's. To them the only compromise is total victory. They see everything as a zero sum game where they not only have to win but the other guy has to lose.
                        “We cannot negotiate with people who say what's mine is mine and what's yours is negotiable." JFK on diplomacy with the Soviet Union.
                        The Left has a long history of this view of diplomacy.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Tsar View Post
                          The problem with compromising is that it is always the GOP that has to give in never the Dem's. To them the only compromise is total victory. They see everything as a zero sum game where they not only have to win but the other guy has to lose.
                          And who says this, hmm? Who has established this rule?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
                            And who says this, hmm? Who has established this rule?

                            I believe that would be the Dem's.
                            Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedy. -- Ernest Benn

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                              DoD, I'm very much a literalist in terms of putting political positions on a scale. Unlike the vast majority of people and scales I've seen trying to position various people and political parties on some sort of graph, I try very hard to use fixed, absolute, points of reference.
                              Thus, the hard Right is Anarchy. That is, a complete absence of government. The Left is an Absolute Dictatorship.
                              How odd considering the Anarchists were a far left movement associated with the early Marxists and Anarchist groups fought with the Republicans in Spain against Franco's Nationalists and the Falange.
                              Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                              Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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