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Donald Trump is Aiding Terrorist Recruitment Efforts

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  • #46
    There is something delicious about seeing Doc start to quote articles that I have only ever seen quoted by idiot left wingers. Bit desperate Doc. Might want to drill down into the data a bit. I'll give you a hint, one of the tactics favoured by apologists for Israel when attempting to deflect about the number of civilians they kill is to point out age & gender. Of course, there are some key differences in context here which make this sort of analysis much more valid.

    Maybe a graph would help. Would be a rare case where it might be helpful to understand the data....if done properly.
    Human beings are the only creatures on Earth that claim a god and the only living thing that behaves like it hasn't got one - Hunter S. Thompson

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    • #47
      Originally posted by BF69 View Post
      There is something delicious about seeing Doc start to quote articles that I have only ever seen quoted by idiot left wingers. Bit desperate Doc. Might want to drill down into the data a bit. I'll give you a hint, one of the tactics favoured by apologists for Israel when attempting to deflect about the number of civilians they kill is to point out age & gender. Of course, there are some key differences in context here which make this sort of analysis much more valid.

      Maybe a graph would help. Would be a rare case where it might be helpful to understand the data....if done properly.
      It's just the difference between having eyes on actual targets and not...

      President Barack Obama has largely developed his targeted killing program. Once a week, he oversees a meeting of his security officials in a White House basement to decide who will be his next victims, reported the New York Times [1].

      The Nobel Peace Prize winner justified his action by claiming that all he is doing is taking out the leaders of the Al-Qaeda terrorist network [2].

      A study by the Bureau of Investigative Journalism, conducted jointly with Amnesty International, Reprieve and the Center for Civilians in Conflict, reveals that during the past year, the United States unlawfully killed in Pakistan 2,379 people. Only 704 of the victims have been identified. Of these, merely 84 were known to be members of al-Qaeda, or 4% of the total number of victims [3].

      http://www.voltairenet.org/article185628.html

      Bush-43...
      From 19 to 24 October the Special Forces team operated in a split team manner. One element, Team Alpha, rode on horseback north into the mountains near Keshendeh Bala along with General Dostum to help him plan the attack on Mazar-e Sharif. The other half of the team, the Bravo element, moved south into the nearby Alma Tak Mountains to attack the Taliban in the southern Darya Suf Valley.

      Team Alpha quickly began helping Dostum directly by calling in close air support (CAS) from U.S. B-1 and B-52 bombers and F-14, 15, 16, and 18 fighter-bombers. At first, however, the team was not permitted to move forward close enough to the Taliban positions to be most effective; Dostum was afraid they would be killed or captured. According to one Special Forces observer, on several occasions he told the team leader "500 of my men can be killed, but not one American can even be injured or you will leave." As a result, the team had to call CAS from a distance of eight to ten kilometers away from the targets, looking across the Darya Suf gorge with weather conditions often hampering visibility. It was extremely hazy most of the time, making it difficult to visually acquire targets even with binoculars and spotting scopes. Eventually, the trust barrier was broken when it became obvious the team could take care of itself. Choosing observation posts (OPs) at their own discretion, often regardless of the element of danger, the men of Team Alpha quickly became more effective.

      The massive close air support brought down by Special Forces had a huge and immediate psychological effect on the Taliban, causing panic and fear, and a correspondingly positive effect on General Dostum's men. Starting on 22 October, Team Alpha, traveling on horseback in support of Dostum's cavalry, decisively demonstrated to the Afghans the U.S. commitment to their cause. From an OP near the villages of Cobaki and Oimatan, team members began systematicallycalling in CAS missions. In one eighteen-hour period they destroyed over twenty armored and twenty support vehicles using close air support. At first the Taliban responded by reinforcing its troops, sending reserves into the area from Sholgara, Mazar-e Sharif, and Kholm. All that did was provide more targets for the CAS aircraft circling overhead and called into action by the SF team on the ground. Numerous key command posts, armored vehicles, troop concentrations, and antiaircraft artillery pieces were destroyed.

      Meanwhile, the Bravo element of the team, also mounted on horseback, moved south into the Alma Tak Mountain range to link up with one of Dostum's subordinate commanders in the southern Darya Suf Valley and prevent the enemy from assisting its forces in the north. They would continue to interdict and destroy Taliban forces in these mountains until 7 November, destroying over sixty-five enemy vehicles, twelve command bunker positions, and a large enemy ammunition storage bunker.

      The work of Teams Alpha and Bravo quickly eroded the initial Taliban defensive positions. Many Taliban vehicles were destroyed, and hundreds of troops were killed. The survivors fled for their lives north to Mazar-e Sharif. In pursuit, Dostum's forces began to conduct old-fashioned cavalry charges into the northern Darya Suf and Balkh Valleys. During these attacks SF team members were in the forefront of the action, often on horseback, even though only one member of the team had ever ridden extensively before.

      Soon the Northern Alliance troops approached a critical pass just south of Mazar-e Sharif. It was a natural choke point, and the enemy was there in force. Dostum's force could not go farther without massive fire support. Moving over treacherous terrain by horse and foot, SF elements moved into a forward mountain OP, and on 9 November they engaged Taliban defenses on the north side of the pass with close air support. Their efforts resulted in the destruction of several vehicles, a number of antiaircraft guns, and numerous troop concentrations. Coming under direct effective enemy BM-2 1 multiple rocket launcher fire on two separate occasions, they continued to engage Taliban forces with B-52 strikes. It was the heavy bombers that finally broke the back of the Taliban defenders, who now began streaming in retreat to Mazar-e Sharif and beyond.

      With the way to victory opened up to him by Special Forces, General Dostum secured the city of Mazar-e Sharif on 10 November. Riding with Dostum into the heart of the city, the SF team watched as local Afghan citizens lined the streets, cheering and bringing gifts to Dostum. This triumphal progress into the city ended at the medieval fortress of Quali Jangi, where Dostum established his headquarters in the eastern entryway. The remaining sections became temporary prisoner holding areas. The fortress had been General Dosturn's headquarters when he was in command of the city prior to Taliban rule. More important, the capture of Mazar-e Sharif was the first major victory for the U.S.-led coalition in the war in Afghanistan, giving it a strategic foothold and an airport in northern Afghanistan.

      http://www.history.army.mil/brochure...%20Freedom.htm



      Syria...
      [T]he Syrian Network for Human Rights, an independent opposition group that tracks casualties in Syria, stated it has documented the deaths of at least 40 civilians in airstrikes in the months among the begin of U.S. bombing in Syria Sept. 23 through the Dec. 28 strike on Al Bab. The deaths include 13 people today killed in Idlib Province on the very first day of the strikes. Other deaths include things like 23 civilians killed in the eastern province of Deir el Zour, two in Raqqa Province and two extra in Idlib Province.

      The concern of civilian deaths in U.S. strikes is crucial as the United States hopes to win help from Syrians for its campaign against the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant. The deaths are seen by U.S.-allied moderate rebel commanders as 1 purpose help for their movement has eroded in northern Syria when assistance for such radical forces as Al-Qaida&rsquos Nusra Front and the ISIL has gained.

      Rebel commanders say they have intelligence that could stay clear of civilian casualties, but that U.S. officials refuse to coordinate with them.

      News of casualties from U.S. actions in Syria seldom seeps out from towns like Al Bab, which has a population of 150,000, simply because ISIL has been in a position to close it off by threatening to jail or kill these reporting to the outside world.

      The Central Command, on behalf of the Joint Job Force, generally difficulties reports of airstrikes on the day they take place, but for a when was publishing its reports only 3 days a week. The Al Bab strike was not included in any of the summaries, nonetheless.

      Central Command spokesman Ryder said the failure to list the Dec. 28 airstrike was an administrative oversight.

      McClatchy reporters identified two sources who confirmed a higher civilian death toll from the airstrike. 1 witness, an activist in Al Bab, gave the death toll as 61 civilian prisoners and 13 ISIL guards. The Syrian Network for Human Rights estimated the death toll at 80, and said 25 of these have been ISIL guards and another 55 were either civilians or imprisoned fighters from other rebel groups.

      Either number would make the Al Bab strike the single worst case of civilian deaths because the U.S. started bombing targets in Syria.

      The U.S.-led campaign against the militants, who have seized about a third of Syria and substantially of northern and western Iraq, is being planned by analysts hundreds, often thousands, of miles from the battlefield.

      http://syriahr.com/en/2015/01/u-s-ac...ians-in-syria/

      There's not a lot of data about ISIL casualties resulting from our ~16,000 sorties.

      If it's 500 per month, then maybe our airstrikes have killed 2,500 to 3,000 ISIL combatants.

      How may Taliban and al-Qaeda did we kill from September - December 2001?
      Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
        Every independent investigation of the strikes has found far more civilian casualties than administration officials admit. Gradually, it has become clear that when operators in Nevada fire missiles into remote tribal territories on the other side of the world, they often do not know who they are killing, but are making an imperfect best guess.

        http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/04/24...?referer=&_r=0
        Different article. Yes of course wrong target are hit etc, not in dispute. However you post, before, stated 9 of 10 are civilians. Please look at the source of the data and post how they determine that.
        “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
        “To talk of many things:
        Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
        Of cabbages—and kings—
        And why the sea is boiling hot—
        And whether pigs have wings.”
        ― Lewis Carroll

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        • #49
          Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
          Ok, I guess their track record of being politically savvy, as you claim, started today then.
          Ok, I guess you didn't read my entire post. They've been taking advantage of our political climate for decades.

          Trump's foreign policy is extreme right wing, no where close to center. Democrat's are the ones that want to do away with the 2nd amendment, move us into socialism (Sanders) and expand government. Meanwhile republicans want to bomb everything into oblivion. Either way this current two party system will be the slow death of us. Pick your poison.
          I was describing his platform as a whole, but even on foreign policy I wouldn't exactly call him "extreme right." Extreme right connotes neo-Nazism, which I don't think Trump subscribes to. For a real "extreme right wing" political group, look at Greece's Golden Dawn.

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          • #50
            Still more successful than carpet bombing. Those 10% that like to surround themselves with human shields don't care much for family and friends.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
              Different article. Yes of course wrong target are hit etc, not in dispute. However you post, before, stated 9 of 10 are civilians. Please look at the source of the data and post how they determine that.
              No. It did not say that 9 of 10 are civilians. It said they weren't "the target"...


              Nearly 90 Percent Of People Killed In Recent Drone Strikes Were Not The Target


              Here's an example from the NYT piece...
              Mr. Zenko noted that with the new disclosures, a total of eight Americans have been killed in drone strikes. Of those, only one, the American cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, who joined Al Qaeda in Yemen and was killed in 2011, was identified and deliberately targeted. The rest were killed in strikes aimed at other militants, or in so-called signature strikes based on indications that people on the ground were likely with Al Qaeda or allied militant groups.

              Though by most accounts six of the eight Americans were allied with Al Qaeda, Obama administration lawyers have ruled that a special legal review should be conducted before killing Americans suspected of terrorism.
              Last edited by The Doctor; 03 Jan 16, 05:15.
              Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
                Still more successful than carpet bombing. Those 10% that like to surround themselves with human shields don't care much for family and friends.
                It's not more.successful than SOF lighting up targets for JDAM's.
                Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
                  It's not more.successful than SOF lighting up targets for JDAM's.
                  Whatever the Air Force has in the air.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
                    I disagree. The Saudi leadership are not a threat to American strategic interests at this time.
                    I can't imagine much happens in SA without the Sauds noticing, funding, etc.



                    How so?
                    The entire world will be pulled into this conflict on a much larger scale as the sunni/shia divide grows.



                    So you want the US to spark a nuclear arms race?
                    How would it spark an arms race?



                    So why would you fight to benefit one side over the other at the cost of American lives?

                    Right now there is a clear battle being waged in the Middle East, a continuation of the age old Sunni-Shia divide. To take out the strongest player on one side (such as taking out Iraq) leaves the other ascendant.

                    Eliminate Saudi Arabia and you strengthen Iran immensely. More importantly you will turn the whole region against you, provide a call to arms for millions, AND still be left with the same problem - Iran.

                    What you're really calling for is the US to invade both Saudi Arabia and Iran... and probably a few other Muslim states as well, once the chaos spreads (ala post-Iraq).

                    The US gains nothing from taking out Saudi Arabia. It only loses.
                    Persia is ascendant regardless of our actions.

                    This war is coming, like it or not.
                    ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

                    BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

                    BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Gixxer86g View Post
                      This war is coming, like it or not.
                      Not necessarily, depending on what the POTUS does. We could just twiddle our thumbs like we did in the 1990s and then end up with a shrewder, more underhanded Middle Eastern version of North Korea.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Gixxer86g View Post
                        I can't imagine much happens in SA without the Sauds noticing, funding, etc.
                        The same goes for the United States at this time. And Iran, Israel, etc.

                        The entire world will be pulled into this conflict on a much larger scale as the sunni/shia divide grows.
                        You don't preempt a war by declaring war on all the parties involved first. And if you recommend war again Saudi, you'd by necessity need war against Iran too, otherwise you're just doing their bidding.

                        That would be like saying you want to prevent world war 2 by declaring war on France, the UK, Poland and Germany first.

                        [quote]How would it spark an arms race?

                        you think the rest of the Middle East is going to twiddle their thumbs while the US deploys nukes in their neighborhood? Especially when the US is discussing war with Saudi Arabia? They'll start reaching out to Pakistan or developing their own nuclear programs for self defense in moments.

                        Persia is ascendant regardless of our actions.

                        This war is coming, like it or not.
                        No, Iran is ascendant because of our actions.

                        We are the nation most responsible for Iran's increase in influence over the last decade. If anything, we're almost Iran's best ally.

                        And no war is inevitable.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
                          You don't preempt a war by declaring war on all the parties involved first.
                          Who's preempting?



                          you think the rest of the Middle East is going to twiddle their thumbs while the US deploys nukes in their neighborhood? Especially when the US is discussing war with Saudi Arabia? They'll start reaching out to Pakistan or developing their own nuclear programs for self defense in moments.

                          You mean like Iran?


                          No, Iran is ascendant because of our actions.

                          We are the nation most responsible for Iran's increase in influence over the last decade. If anything, we're almost Iran's best ally.

                          No, Iran is responsible for that increase in influence. The fact that we opened doors for them changes nothing.


                          And no war is inevitable.
                          I hope you're right. It's not how I see it happening.
                          ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

                          BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

                          BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by BobTheBarbarian View Post
                            I actually think that in this particular case the primary motive in al-Shabaab's making this video is to make Trump look bad in the US political field, rather than to inspire more prospective jihadis.

                            Terror groups like al-Shabaab are very politically savvy and they know what buttons to push to generate a certain response. Making Trump look bad in the eyes of the undecided voter would logically boost support for Clinton and other like minded individuals, whom the terrorists undoubtedly see as easier to deal with. They'd rather have a wishy-washy Democrat in office (a woman, no less), than a ruthless person who by all accounts appears determined to put the screws to them.

                            In other words, the video is more intended to freak out the liberal media and give Clinton a chance to say "I told you so" than it is to raise support at home. It's actually a very farsighted move.


                            Wow i find this humorous.

                            Under a democratic black president the USA as masivly increased there support of removing terrorist groups in Africa through direct and indirect means.

                            Trump is more likely to abandon Africa and thuse aid african extremists than harm them. Even if he did any thing forghine policy wise it would probaly make USA look bad and benfit the extremists.
                            you think you a real "bleep" solders you "bleep" plastic solders don't wory i will make you in to real "bleep" solders!! "bleep" plastic solders

                            CPO Mzinyati

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Escape2Victory View Post
                              Well if Trump gets his way, it certainly would be a divisive move. Muslims would not like it and some would use it for their own purposes.

                              To return to a common theme of mine, this vast majority of moderate Muslims in the West have still not mustered an angry march against radical Islam. Nowhere in Europe or America have they done this. So moderates should do their bit to close the divide.

                              Secondly, the propaganda use is a secondary concern. Nations should make the decision best for their people, and this always starts with the security of its citizens. Nations may, if they wish, prove their superb tolerance and liberal values by bringing in millions of Muslims to prove a point. If that is the democratic choice, such as Germany has made, so be it. Others, such as Hungary have said a democratic and emphatic no to Muslim world immigration. If it is the democratic US choice, that is all that matters, not what al shabby thinks.
                              I agree...personally I think that if we have a politician who says something that angers Islamic extremists he or she must be doing something right. The alternative: consider how the terrorists will like what we say before we say it and edit ourselves...not exactly what I'd want a president to do.
                              I think considering the implications of what you say is great but apparently Hillary thinks we should run everything through a filter of 'what will the terrorists think' before we say or do anything, regardless of whether it's right for the US or not? The idea that Hillary proposed is asinine if you think about it: that people who are peaceful Muslims, upon hearing something that Donald Trump says suddenly decide to throw away their lives and become terrorists. Moronic thing for Hillary to say and it shows how stupid she really is. So there you go democrats...your favorite candidate is not only a weirdly compulsive liar, she's also a moron. Kudos to you liberals for your choice.

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                              • #60
                                Only extremists are not scared. All trump is doing is pissing Africans and Muslims off. He is a forghine policy failure and will only strengthen Chinas, Europe's and others hold in Africa, increase tension between Muslims and the west.
                                you think you a real "bleep" solders you "bleep" plastic solders don't wory i will make you in to real "bleep" solders!! "bleep" plastic solders

                                CPO Mzinyati

                                Comment

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