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  • #76
    Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
    Ah - didn't know there was a supply problem in guided ammunition, seems strange,

    thanks.
    It's expensive stuff.
    ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

    BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

    BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Gixxer86g View Post
      It's expensive stuff.
      So the limitation would the ability of various militaries to buy the stuff, not strictly speaking the supply ?

      It would seem profitable business for any company to produce and sell to any interested party.

      Edit: Did some more searching and found this Dutch article, it seems there's a six month delivery time after ordering - so there *does* seem to be a supply problem in part at least, as well as budget issues.

      http://www.elsevier.nl/Nederland/ach...kort-2694302W/
      Last edited by Snowygerry; 17 Dec 15, 04:30.
      High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.
      Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Co.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by ljadw View Post
        .

        Muslims respect only force ,they have only contempt for those who are afraid to fight .
        Yeaaaaah !You're right !!
        They're too stupid to understand anything else !
        Beat them until they die and kill them again just for peace of mind.
        That rug really tied the room together

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        • #79
          Originally posted by frisco17 View Post
          Not likely. TONS of precedent exists in favor of its legality. Otherwise you would have to declare the entire Allied bombing campaign of WWII a war crime, along with much of Korea and Vietnam.
          There is the problem that the international laws have changed since 1945. What was legal back then is often not legal today. So be more careful when trying to use a precedent.
          Michele

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          • #80
            Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
            You're ok with that. I'm not. Our generals are not. Nothing more really needs to be said about any of this.
            You clearly don't understand the US military's mindset. How many generals and admirals have retired in the past few years and come out strongly against Obama's half-assed policies and overly strict ROE? Go out and look for articles and interviews about this you'll find dozens from different officers from the past few months alone. General grade officers don't have he luxury of publically disagreeing with official policy because that's not their job, they are subordinate to the civilian government but that doesn't mean they agree with the order they are given. Maybe some of the political appointees at the Pentagon do but not the vast majority of them. What the Generals want is the power and freedom to actually complete their mission successful. To engage and destroy the enemies of the United States as quickly, effectively and completely as possible. Political handicaps are the absolute BANE of the US military. Only the budget cuts are arguably more hated.

            Originally posted by Michele View Post
            There is the problem that the international laws have changed since 1945. What was legal back then is often not legal today. So be more careful when trying to use a precedent.
            In some cases that's true but even a Desert Storm style campaign would be enough in my mind. You don't have to bomb indiscriminately and you don't have to target civilians. Just target IS assets and personel regardless of where they are and what they're next too.

            Also international law is not the be all and end all of what is right. It is sometimes highly idealistic and not feasable in reality. The more recent laws concerning war are some of the worst offenders of this. They're luxuries you can afford to follow when you're vastly stronger than your opponent but you can't afford to follow them in a life or death fight. Imagine us trying to fight a the world wars or Korea with today's rules. Add to that some of the rules are just wrong and pointless. The cluster weapon ban being one of them. I'm glad we're not a party to that one. I've worked with DPICMs in the past and they're far to effective a tool to throw away for such flimsy reasons.
            "Artillery lends dignity to what might otherwise be a vulgar brawl." - Frederick the Great

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            • #81
              Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
              It's not a matter of blaming anyone. If our goal is to win this war against radical Islam and terror organizations then it is an important fact we must keep in mind. I'm not saying that our actions should radicalize anyone. I never said that the radicalization was justified either. The reality is, the more innocent lives that are taken the more radicals we'll see. Thus, the tougher and longer the war becomes. Right or wrong, that's the truth and when conducting a war we must operate within the realms of reality.

              So it's not a matter of blaming anyone, it's about proposing the best and most efficient solutions to winning this war convincingly and as quickly as possible. Carpet bombing would do just the opposite.

              I'm also not a leftist.
              I don't see Muslims joining ISIL because their mad at folks like Hida. No its not an excuse to go join a terror group just because someone supports banning Muslims or someone says kill their families. If some Jew said something negative about Jesus Christ to me, I would not go and join a neo Nazi group.

              The realty is this,

              30,000 ISIL members and some 2 million Sunnis who live in ISIL lands and support ISIL. There are another 1.6 billion Muslims whom are against ISIL, the 1.6 billion Muslims are not going to all of a sudden join ISIL just because Trump says "kill their families".

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              • #82
                Originally posted by frisco17 View Post
                Also international law is not the be all and end all of what is right.
                Sure. But it was you who used terms like "precedents" and "legality", remember? That language points very clearly (unless I'm grossly misunderstanding it) towards an assessment based exactly on international law, not on subjective principles of what is right.
                Michele

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                • #83
                  I brought up legality in response to PhillipLaos asking if American officers would be legally justified in refusing to carry out an order. Orders can only be ignored if they are not lawful and what I'm talking about absolutely is lawful. That's why I didn't just use WWII as an example and included Korea, Vietnam and to a lesser extent Desert Storm. If those bombing campaigns were not war crimes then what I am suggesting isn't either. My disagreements with some elements of current international law are a slightly idffernt issue and something I brought up as a side note.
                  "Artillery lends dignity to what might otherwise be a vulgar brawl." - Frederick the Great

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
                    I'm also not a leftist.
                    and I'm FDR's illegitimate great grand uncle!

                    Originally posted by BobTheBarbarian View Post
                    The only way that ISIS can permanently be destroyed is through direct penetration of ground forces combined with more intense air strikes. So far the Arab states have proven to be too weak/unwilling to do so and the local militias are not large enough. So once again it's our problem.
                    No its not.
                    Our problem is keeping those bastards out of our own country, something a lot of people don't understand.
                    In France they just arrested 2 more guys that came in pretending to be Syrians refugees, who helped in the Paris attacks.

                    Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
                    Ah - didn't know there was a supply problem in guided ammunition, seems strange,

                    thanks.
                    I didn't know pilots had lost the ability to drop normal bombs with a reasonable amount of accuracy.
                    What, do they need to bring back the Stuka?
                    "Why is the Rum gone?"

                    -Captain Jack

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                    • #85
                      You'd be surprised how small the circular error probable of an unguided bomb can actually be in a low threat environment when pilots can line up good runs. It's never going to be as precise as PGMs or even artillery fire but it's still pretty good.
                      "Artillery lends dignity to what might otherwise be a vulgar brawl." - Frederick the Great

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
                        Referring to her proximity to Russia: "Explain to me why that enhances your foreign policy credentials"

                        "Well it certainly does..."

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk8moOxzlGQ

                        If she doesn't feel that it enhances her credentials then she certainly wouldn't have defended her initial statement with an emphatic, "it certainly does" and then attempt to explain why it does. To people that speak English she clearly indicates that her location has enhanced her foreign policy credentials, but to you I guess not, so take from that whatever you like.

                        You can attach whatever sociology terms you want, just bear in mind that the most powerful manipulator of the human psyche is bias. To which I have none towards either party. I have no obligation to mindlessly defend any rep or dem unlike you.
                        Pause for laughter.
                        A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
                          I'm also not a leftist.
                          I didn't label you as a leftist, just the BS garbage you're spewing about "us" creating the problems in the ME. Those problems have been there for thousands of years.
                          The First Amendment applies to SMS, Emails, Blogs, online news, the Fourth applies to your cell phone, computer, and your car, but the Second only applies to muskets?

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
                            and I'm FDR's illegitimate great grand uncle!



                            No its not.
                            Our problem is keeping those bastards out of our own country, something a lot of people don't understand.
                            In France they just arrested 2 more guys that came in pretending to be Syrians refugees, who helped in the Paris attacks.



                            I didn't know pilots had lost the ability to drop normal bombs with a reasonable amount of accuracy.
                            What, do they need to bring back the Stuka?

                            I can't rep you so soon.
                            Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Taieb el-Okbi View Post
                              I don't see Muslims joining ISIL because their mad at folks like Hida. No its not an excuse to go join a terror group just because someone supports banning Muslims or someone says kill their families. If some Jew said something negative about Jesus Christ to me, I would not go and join a neo Nazi group.

                              The realty is this,

                              30,000 ISIL members and some 2 million Sunnis who live in ISIL lands and support ISIL. There are another 1.6 billion Muslims whom are against ISIL, the 1.6 billion Muslims are not going to all of a sudden join ISIL just because Trump says "kill their families".
                              I never said anyone would join isis over what Trump said.

                              Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
                              and I'm FDR's illegitimate great grand uncle!
                              I'm in favor of small government, fiscal conservative, tax cuts, pro 2a, and repealing Obamacare. To name a few things. I doubt the left would be too welcoming of me. I'm libertarian. I've never identified with or voted for anyone on the left.
                              "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
                              - Benjamin Franklin

                              The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Hida Akechi View Post
                                I didn't label you as a leftist, just the BS garbage you're spewing about "us" creating the problems in the ME. Those problems have been there for thousands of years.
                                The post you quoted was referencing how carpet bombing is reckless and would have a negative impact on our efforts. If you disagree that's fine, but I don't see how that can be extrapolated to me saying we caused all of the issues in the middle east. That's not what was said. I do feel we helped foment a civil war in the region, we did. But, I'm well aware of the issues that were present long before we arrived.
                                "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
                                - Benjamin Franklin

                                The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

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