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  • Iraq thinks US is helping ISIS

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/...Kz&ocid=SMSDHP

    BAIJI, Iraq — On the front lines of the battle against the Islamic State, suspicion of the United States runs deep. Iraqi fighters say they have all seen the videos purportedly showing U.S. helicopters airdropping weapons to the militants, and many claim they have friends and relatives who have witnessed similar instances of collusion.

    Ordinary people also have seen the videos, heard the stories and reached the same conclusion — one that might seem absurd to Americans but is widely believed among Iraqis — that the United States is supporting the Islamic State for a variety of pernicious reasons that have to do with asserting American control over Iraq, the wider Middle East and, perhaps, its oil.

    “It is not in doubt,” said Mustafa Saadi, who says his friend saw U.S. helicopters delivering bottled water to Islamic State positions. He is a commander in one of the Shiite militias that last month helped push the militants out of the oil refinery near Baiji in northern Iraq alongside the Iraqi army.
    I don't mean this to bash Obama, but his administration letting this happen with Iraq is just astounding. We're losing the actual war there, and now we apparently have lost the propaganda war as well. Could US leadership be any more curelessly FU'd?

  • #2
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/...Kz&ocid=SMSDHP



    I don't mean this to bash Obama, but his administration letting this happen with Iraq is just astounding. We're losing the actual war there, and now we apparently have lost the propaganda war as well. Could US leadership be any more curelessly FU'd?
    Suspect there isn't much they could have done - as one of my tags says when translated "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain". How would you have fought the propaganda war?
    Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
    Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

    Comment


    • #3
      I have wondered this myself. The Shiite government of Iraq basically threw us out of Iraq in a deal made with George W. Bush. So then we began to deal with the Sunnis, some of whom are in ISIS, courtesy of General Petraeus. We are for sure supporting the Saudis (Sunnis) in their war against Yemeni Houthis people, which is basically a war of Sunni against Shiite.

      I think we are sort of strung far, far out on our own petard and don’t know how to deal with what is a religious Civil War. There is the Sunni faction supported by the Saudis, there is the Kurdish faction which is 90 % Sunni, and then there is the Shiite faction supported by Iran. (The Kurds fighting ISIS is sort of a Civil War within a Civil War.) It also appears that Israel supports the Sunni faction more than the Shiite faction because they are more afraid of the Iranians than the Saudis (and supposedly the Saudi Wahabbists support ISIS).

      Could it be that Israel is using helicopters supplied by us to support ISIS fighters? The rumor that Israel is giving material support to some Sunni fighters has been put out there before. Plus this interview supports that contention and that Israel may be engineering a good deal of the conflict between the two religious factions.
      http://www.digital-resistance.com/mi...-israeli-plan/

      http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/orig...-heights.html#

      I wonder who in our government does not understand all of the factions and even if we do understand all of them, do we know how to deal with them? I think we are sort of trying to placate everyone.

      Now that the Russians are involved, and supporting the Shiite faction, how does that play into the situation? ISIS for sure seems to have been hurt more since the Russians entered the game.

      Plus it helps to remember that

      Iran/Iraq/Persians = Shiite

      Saudi/ISIS/Al Quada/Arabians = Sunni

      I do think that we are supporting many more elements on the Sunni side than on the Shiite side.

      Plus this war may be becoming a proxy war between Russia and the US. (Remember that we were sort of forced into negotiating with Iran by the fact that Russia and China were leading a goodly portion of Europe into dealing with them. The deal, supposedly led by us, had been percolating for years and Russia forced the issue, not us.) There is a lot more going on than just a war against ISIS. The International politics swirling around this are huge and complicated.

      http://www.voanews.com/content/russi...l/2867710.html

      http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/08/06/...ort-iran-deal/
      Homo homini lupus

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Jannie View Post
        ...Could it be that Israel is using helicopters supplied by us to support ISIS fighters ?
        Or that they are captured heli's with insignia still on them ?

        Almost anyone down there has good reasons to set up such a false flag operation.

        Are any helicopters reported lost in the Iraq debacle ?
        Last edited by Snowygerry; 02 Dec 15, 07:32.
        Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

        Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

        Comment


        • #5
          What is the source for all this anyway? Are the videos on the web? do they actually exist?. I note the use of the phrase 'purportedly showing' and the reporter is quoting someone who says his friend has seen the video not that he has seen it. So its third hand eye witnessing at best. Sounds like a classic urban myth. It'll be Russians with snow on their boots next!
          Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
          Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

          Comment


          • #6
            After my year in Iraq I firmly believe that there is not a rumor wild enough that the 'Arab Street' will NOT believe. It was unbelievable what Intel heard was out there.....
            “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
            “To talk of many things:
            Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
            Of cabbages—and kings—
            And why the sea is boiling hot—
            And whether pigs have wings.”
            ― Lewis Carroll

            Comment


            • #7
              Actually, we aren't all that sophisticated to pull it off.
              My worst jump story:
              My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
              As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
              No lie.

              ~
              "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
              -2 Commando Jumpmaster

              Comment


              • #8
                And many people in Africa thought the Western doctors sent there to fight Ebola were the ones infecting people as part of some ill defined CIA plot. The people in some parts of the world are either ignorant or just plain dumb enough to believe anything. No surprise here.
                "Artillery lends dignity to what might otherwise be a vulgar brawl." - Frederick the Great

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                  After my year in Iraq I firmly believe that there is not a rumor wild enough that the 'Arab Street' will NOT believe. It was unbelievable what Intel heard was out there.....
                  Always been that way I suspect - reading some of the first hand accounts by some of the politicos in Mesopotamia 1914 -17 - wild unfounded rumours are nothing new. Although having been in Baghdad in Saddam's time I can testify that no one dared pass on a rumour that hadn't been government generated and approved then.
                  But your comments about the Arab street are more generally applicable. When Saudi had its first ever armed bank raid just after the end of the first Gulf war there was a rumour that the CIA had carried it out, then it was US special forces free lancing (sort of like the A team). The fact that all the eye witnesses stated that the raiders all spoke perfect Arabic with a Saudi Eastern Province accent didn't seem to count for much - very cunning these Americans.
                  Last edited by MarkV; 02 Dec 15, 08:12.
                  Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                  Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jannie View Post
                    I have wondered this myself. The Shiite government of Iraq basically threw us out of Iraq in a deal made with George W. Bush.
                    President Obama was in office when the troops were pulled out. He did it for political reasons:

                    (CNSNews.com) - When he was running for re-election in 2012, President Barack Obama repeatedly took credit for ending the war in Iraq and bringing all U.S. troops home from that country. At the White House on Saturday, however, when talking about his decision to use military force against the al-Qaida-related ISIS terrorist group in Iraq, Obama said removing all U.S. troops from Iraq was not “my decision.”

                    In 2014 he was claiming that it wasn't his decision.

                    In 2012 he made it clear that it was his decision.

                    “You know I say what I mean and I mean what I say,” Obama said in Hollywood, Florida on Nov. 4, 2012. “I said I'd end the war in Iraq. I ended it.”

                    Watch the video.....it is pretty clear that it was President Obama:

                    http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/...ot-my-decision
                    "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yeah, yeah yeah! and George W. Bush is claiming the exact opposite. Given the dates, I think it was Georgie Porgie that did the deed.

                      http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archiv...0081214-2.html

                      http://mediamatters.org/research/201...-to-sta/199742

                      Also see the above article that explains what happened when Obama went into office and had to deal with Maliki who would not abide by the Status of Forces agreement that he signed with Bush.
                      Homo homini lupus

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jannie View Post
                        Yeah, yeah yeah! and George W. Bush is claiming the exact opposite. Given the dates, I think it was Georgie Porgie that did the deed.

                        http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archiv...0081214-2.html

                        http://mediamatters.org/research/201...-to-sta/199742

                        Also see the above article that explains what happened when Obama went into office and had to deal with Maliki who would not abide by the Status of Forces agreement that he signed with Bush.


                        Bush successfully negotiated a SOFA with Iraq.
                        Obama attempted to negotiate a new SOFA, but was unsuccessful.

                        Bush is not responsible for the fact that Obama could not duplicate this success.
                        Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                        Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          "Iraq thinks US is helping ISIS"

                          No they dont. Incorrect thread title.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
                            Bush successfully negotiated a SOFA with Iraq.
                            Obama attempted to negotiate a new SOFA, but was unsuccessful.

                            Bush is not responsible for the fact that Obama could not duplicate this success.
                            And just WHAT did the Bush negotiated SOFA call for? Specifically by the End of 2011?????
                            “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                            “To talk of many things:
                            Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                            Of cabbages—and kings—
                            And why the sea is boiling hot—
                            And whether pigs have wings.”
                            ― Lewis Carroll

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                              And just WHAT did the Bush negotiated SOFA call for? Specifically by the End of 2011?????
                              yes. So?
                              The agreement was for a specific length of time just as the one BO was attempting to negotiate.
                              Bush successfully negotiated a SOFA with Iraq, and BO did not.
                              The fact that there were end dates doesn't change that fact.
                              Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                              Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                              Comment

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