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Veterans Urge US Military to Remove Barriers That Prevent Sikhs From Serving

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Duncan View Post
    : I'll give you some Canadian troops with beards in exchange.

    Did you notice that the one on the left is named "Duncan"?

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    • #62
      Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
      As an interesting note to all this: Shaving and improved, faster methods of doing so became very popular and in demand during WW 1 because of chemical warfare. Up to that point in history beards and facial hair were very common for men.

      Indeed ,prior to WW1 the growth of moustaches were compulsory in British Empire armies -but NEVER in the Navy, even now where it was, and is, either "full set"- beard and moustache- or nothing.

      Further, It has been claimed that Hitler cropped his moustache to its characteristic squared-off shape as he had originally had difficulty with fitting his gas mask in the trenches.
      Last edited by BELGRAVE; 12 Nov 15, 21:02.
      "I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
      Samuel Johnson.

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      • #63
        I have been out of the Army quiet a few years now, some of my platoon leaders and company commanders when I was a PFC and an NCO made it to 2 and 3 star generals, one of them to 4 and are now retired but I keep in touch with a couple, I still have a pretty good feel for the Army and beards are not going to happen anytime soon and in the Marine Corps I would bet probably never!
        Last edited by Trung Si; 12 Nov 15, 21:41.
        Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

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        • #64
          Originally posted by johns624 View Post
          Did you notice that the one on the left is named "Duncan"?
          lol. Just noticed it. That's my first name though. And an ex-girlfriend took off with my ID tags almost 30 years ago (and my university jacket and the rent money). She was wearing them when she left. Dammit, I would have liked to hang on to those.
          AHIKS - Play by (E)mail board wargaming since 1965.
          The Blitz - Play by Email computer wargaming.

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          • #65
            So, Duncan, are you a veteran of the armed service? (i.e. Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard)
            Last edited by Jose50; 13 Nov 15, 13:03.
            ARRRR! International Talk Like A Pirate Day - September 19th
            IN MARE IN COELO

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            • #66
              Originally posted by johns624 View Post
              Did you notice that the one on the left is named "Duncan"?
              So - since this thread is about Sikhs serving in the US military, we can assume that "Duncan" is actually a Sikh seeking to serve in America, correct?

              Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Jose50 View Post
                So, Duncan, are you a veteran of the armed service? (i.e. Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard)
                Just a short service as an infantry reservist a long time ago with no deployments. My experience consists of no more than learning how to march and strip an FNC1.
                AHIKS - Play by (E)mail board wargaming since 1965.
                The Blitz - Play by Email computer wargaming.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Duncan View Post
                  Just a short service as an infantry reservist a long time ago with no deployments. My experience consists of no more than learning how to march and strip an FNC1.
                  Boy you've got much to learn. How to roll a d-20 so it comes up a 20 70% of the time. Dice manipulation is key to whiling away the hours playing D&D. All my buddies make me roll in a cup rather than roll them across a board.

                  Yeah I know Air Force, the place of slackers...
                  Credo quia absurdum.


                  Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
                    Boy you've got much to learn. How to roll a d-20 so it comes up a 20 70% of the time. Dice manipulation is key to whiling away the hours playing D&D. All my buddies make me roll in a cup rather than roll them across a board.

                    Yeah I know Air Force, the place of slackers...
                    A friend of mine went for intelligence training. He spent much of his time in the course building models of Soviet aircraft.
                    AHIKS - Play by (E)mail board wargaming since 1965.
                    The Blitz - Play by Email computer wargaming.

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                    • #70
                      I must have missed the actual facts and figures. Exactly how many Sikhs are being prevented from serving in our armed forces?
                      Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        I must have missed the actual facts and figures. Exactly how many Sikhs are being prevented from serving in our armed forces?
                        I don't know how many are being blocked. But you only have three who with a duty to accommodate for articles of faith.
                        AHIKS - Play by (E)mail board wargaming since 1965.
                        The Blitz - Play by Email computer wargaming.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Duncan View Post
                          I don't know how many are being blocked.
                          The military is not blocking them from serving.
                          "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Duncan View Post
                            I don't know how many are being blocked. But you only have three who with a duty to accommodate for articles of faith.
                            So in other words, it's not a real problem of any meaningful magnitude.
                            Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              So in other words, it's not a real problem of any meaningful magnitude.
                              Nope. It's a small scale issue only really important if you are one of the folks being excluded.
                              AHIKS - Play by (E)mail board wargaming since 1965.
                              The Blitz - Play by Email computer wargaming.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Duncan View Post
                                Just a short service as an infantry reservist a long time ago with no deployments. My experience consists of no more than learning how to march and strip an FNC1.
                                This is really amazing, don't get me wrong, I do think that it is great that you served your country...but.....

                                John (20+ years in the military) mentions that you can't get a seal with a beard, you reply with this:

                                Then you go after Slick (I think 8+ years of service) with this:

                                Originally posted by Duncan View Post
                                And since a beard friendly gas mask has been patented in Canada I'm pretty sure that if some smart engineer in the U.S.A. would start looking for a solution, rather than listening to excuses, the problem could be dealt with.
                                Then you start getting things wrong about the US and also talk more about the non existent beard friendly gas mask:

                                Originally posted by Duncan View Post
                                That is asinine. The U.S.A. has a hard-on for firearms. It's a nation where you can order a handgun by mail, has dumb ass stand your ground laws, wants everyone to carry a gun and even legislates it in some places, embraces and celebrates firearms as a form of jewelry, and it has a problem with kirpans?! You can open carry an M16 but people have a **** over carrying a kirpan. Absolutely ludicrous.

                                Dunno. But the guy who patented it has a tour in Bosnia and three tours in Afghanistan. The U.S.A. has engineers right?
                                Then you go after Jose50 (another service member...I think 20+ years but not sure) With this:

                                Originally posted by Duncan View Post
                                So that valuable people are not excluded from a task.
                                So that people do not have to choose between service to their religion and service to their nation.
                                Because, in general, fitting the equipment to the person is easier than fitting the person to the equipment.
                                To support claims of being an inclusive society.
                                Because a lot of non-Sikh U.S. servicemen in Iraq and Afghanistan have worn beards, making it a bullshit excuse.
                                Because it's already been done, making it a bullshit excuse.
                                If you're willing to **** money away on the F-35 I can't see a gas mask design being a financial or resource burden worth noting, making it a bullshit excuse.
                                Then you go after Frisco17 by posting some pictures, one of which was from Hollywood....

                                Then I (20+ years of service) point out that your link was about a hood and not a beard friendly gas mask and you come back with this:

                                Originally posted by Duncan View Post
                                I guess you didn't bother reading the claims section where some of this is discussed.
                                I point out that you were incorrect so you try a deflection:

                                Originally posted by Duncan View Post
                                They'll get to it right after the F-35 is completed for sure.
                                You have been here for a long time, you probably know the backgrounds of most of the posters that went after with your 'beard friendly gas mask.'

                                You attempted to shoot down/belittle a lot of military experience in this thread........

                                Did you at least go to the gas chamber in boot camp or during your reserve time?
                                "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

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