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  • #31
    When it comes to homework many teachers no longer give any out. There are numerous reasons for it but the one that bothers me in particular is that the teacher doesn't want the parent(s) knowing what subject matter is being taught.

    I find this a relatively new phenomena. It really doesn't matter if it's sex education, history, Conservative or Progressive values, or whatever. It seems that more teachers are hiding what they teach from parents either due to subject matter, or politics.

    http://www.texasinsider.org/state-bo...riculum-group/

    That's just one example of what I mean. It doesn't matter if the Left, Right, or Center is doing it. It doesn't matter if some "revisionist" with an agenda is doing it.
    But, it happens all the time and one way it stays out of the public eye is teachers keep it quiet.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Duncan View Post
      The one common problem I see is blaming of the teacher rather than being an engaged parent involved in your children's education.



      Well, for those children and parents unable to form a working relationship with their educators - this was only one of many options I mentioned. I'm sure folks can come up with others as well.

      Basically it comes down to, quit whining and get 'er done.
      A few problems with your argument.

      First, you clearly haven't seen common core in all it's nightmarish form. Conventional math taught when I was a kid gave you streamlined formulas for solving mathematical equations. Common core gives you either needlessly complicated methods or downright unsound methods for learning. It's hard for the parent to be engaged in their child's education when the educational systems range from inefficient to incomprehensible to wrong. The system of math that you are standing up for, that 3+3+3+3+3=15 business is technically correct but a primitive and clunky method for doing math especially for an 8th grader. Multiplication was invented precisely for the purpose of cutting down all the time you would spend doing that addition. You're clinging to an abacus in the era of smartphones.

      While it's true that some parents have a disconnect with their child's education, most don't. Your offering of "quit whining and get er' done" is a statement that sounds pithy but shows a lack of understanding of the problem. Even your cartoon misses the mark. Common core ire isn't parents blaming the teachers, it's parents expressing anger at a system that even many of the teachers dislike.

      Plenty of educators in my town don't care for some of the nonsense they've seen. In that regard parent and teacher are actually united.
      A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

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      • #33
        I won't argue for or against common core. I don't know it. I do know that there is an important difference between 5x3 and 3x5 even though they are equal.
        AHIKS - Play by (E)mail board wargaming since 1965.
        The Blitz - Play by Email computer wargaming.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
          The assignment was given at 3:30 on Nov. 10.
          The library is closed on Nov. 11,. But you seem to miss the point.
          They do not have textbooks to study. They use online books.
          But the assignment was to write the essay without internet sources.
          My point being that without textbooks, and when the library is closed what other source is there?
          As for the math question, the answer is always going to be the same, 15.
          Does nobody use cursive anymore? I do.
          Now I will say this. You might want to clarify what an internet source is. Because if they want them to reference their own textbooks and the textbooks are online then I don't think consulting the textbooks online is what they are talking about. "No internet sources" is a rule meant to keep kids from sourcing things like Wikipedia. Sourcing their own physical textbooks which they merely accessed online isn't quite the same thing. I'd ask.
          A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
            The assignment was given at 3:30 on Nov. 10.
            The library is closed on Nov. 11,. But you seem to miss the point.
            They do not have textbooks to study. They use online books.
            But the assignment was to write the essay without internet sources.
            My point being that without textbooks, and when the library is closed what other source is there?
            As for the math question, the answer is always going to be the same, 15.
            Does nobody use cursive anymore? I do.
            This example brings a different problem to the table. If the student lives in a home where the parents have books and other stuff like that, no problem. If the student lives in a home where the parents don't own books, television and VCR / DVD's etc., are the primary or only form of entertainment, etc., then the student has a serious problem.

            As for math... I see this as a straight forward issue.

            Trying to teach kids the theory of math and a bunch of different, often obtuse, methods for doing it is a mistake. A huge mistake.

            Math, that is add, subtract, divide, multiply, and fractions should be taught by near rote methods. Speed and accuracy should be the desired outcome. There is little or no need for "spacial reasoning" or abstract methods of doing this sort of thing. It is basic to learning anything more in the field of mathematics.

            Algebra follows math. Geometry follows that. Then comes trigonometry. Then calculus.

            Most students won't get much beyond algebra or geometry. That's not a bad thing per se. Most students K - 12 will never figure out calculus. It isn't a condemnation of them, it is simply something they are not going to figure out. Some students will be great athletes, or prodigies at music, others won't.
            One thing Common Core and much of education today tries to do is somehow change that expecting "fair and equal" outcomes for all students as if all humans were identical and interchangeable.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Pirateship1982 View Post
              Now I will say this. You might want to clarify what an internet source is. Because if they want them to reference their own textbooks and the textbooks are online then I don't think consulting the textbooks online is what they are talking about. "No internet sources" is a rule meant to keep kids from sourcing things like Wikipedia. Sourcing their own physical textbooks which they merely accessed online isn't quite the same thing. I'd ask.
              That was my thought too. At any rate he got through it. I hope they give more attention to the Renaissance then a two page essay.
              Just to be clear, the kid gets straight A's in math, and has never received any grade lower than a B in any subject.
              It is interesting that instead of conversing so many saw this as a. opportunity to criticize my family's ability to get the boy to a library, or to suggest we are illiterate and have no books.
              If I would not get banned I you tell you what I'm thinking about you.
              As for cursive, who cares if future adults can not read the letters written between generals, or any other original source material, who cares?
              Of course you are all correct. Nobody will care about the thoughts of great historical figures.
              How silly of me. I was mistaken to believe we were all interested in history on a history forum.
              Last edited by Urban hermit; 12 Nov 15, 20:18.
              Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
              Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
                Maybe this is just a rant, I think of it as an observation,
                My 13 year old grandson is spending the night and while I am posting this he is doing his school assignment that is due Thursday.
                His assignment is to write three paragraphs on the Renaissance.
                Sounds simple huh?
                He can not use the Internet. Simple you say, just use his textbook, right?
                Well, here is the problem, they don't have textbooks!
                All he has is a notebook computer!
                But he can't use the Internet!
                Here is the other part of my dismay,
                Common Core,
                Question, what is 5X3?
                If you answered 15 you are wrong.
                According to Common Core the answer is
                3+3+3+3+3=15!
                You're lucky it doesn't have to be written in Spanish.
                My worst jump story:
                My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                No lie.

                ~
                "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                -2 Commando Jumpmaster

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                • #38
                  Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                  Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Duncan View Post
                    The one common problem I see is blaming of the teacher rather than being an engaged parent involved in your children's education.
                    Don't try to lump me in with all those B.S. artists.
                    You really think I'm some whining Libtard, seriously?

                    I call out incompetence where I see it, and this is a teacher that is asking kids to do something GOOD, get away from the net and try reading a book, the right one, and work from it.
                    Then he assigned it as an overnight w/o warning instead of an over the weekend thing where they might have had a shot at doing something that they weren't used to (the whole point of the maneuver .... and and that point it becomes an "I'm right and you are wrong" routine vs. those that would question his power.

                    3.5 hours, eh? How many kids in that class divided by how many books in the Library on that one particular subject?
                    Maybe he WANTED them to fail, get frustrated and even more paranoid... which is indeed the common thread in Common Core.
                    "Why is the Rum gone?"

                    -Captain Jack

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                      When it comes to homework many teachers no longer give any out. There are numerous reasons for it but the one that bothers me in particular is that the teacher doesn't want the parent(s) knowing what subject matter is being taught.

                      I find this a relatively new phenomena. It really doesn't matter if it's sex education, history, Conservative or Progressive values, or whatever. It seems that more teachers are hiding what they teach from parents either due to subject matter, or politics.

                      http://www.texasinsider.org/state-bo...riculum-group/

                      That's just one example of what I mean. It doesn't matter if the Left, Right, or Center is doing it. It doesn't matter if some "revisionist" with an agenda is doing it.
                      But, it happens all the time and one way it stays out of the public eye is teachers keep it quiet.
                      Any evidence of this?
                      "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it"
                      G.B Shaw

                      "They promised us homes fit for heroes, they give us heroes fit for homes."
                      Grandad, Only Fools and Horses

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Sergio View Post
                        Any evidence of this?
                        I have proposed, several times, that CCTV links be in every classroom so that parents can observe the behavior of their own kids in class.
                        The teachers always react with berserk fury, or outright terror, and its not even aimed at them.

                        Seems they don't dig parents seeing and hearing what the actual lesson plan is.
                        "Why is the Rum gone?"

                        -Captain Jack

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
                          I have proposed, several times, that CCTV links be in every classroom so that parents can observe the behavior of their own kids in class.
                          The teachers always react with berserk fury, or outright terror, and its not even aimed at them.

                          Seems they don't dig parents seeing and hearing what the actual lesson plan is.
                          I don't blame the teacher at all, he may be a great teacher, it's the idea that there is no text book from which to study. I wouldn't want any student to use Wikipedia as a source, but there are some great websites that are operated by educational publishing companies.
                          In this case our grandson has a notebook computer. We have an encyclopedia on the book shelf.. Not all families do, and in the city we live in the library is closed on Veterans Day.
                          The school should at least provide a library and a study period after the end of regular school hours.
                          Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                          Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
                            That was my thought too. At any rate he got through it. I hope they give more attention to the Renaissance then a two page essay.
                            Just to be clear, the kid gets straight A's in math, and has never received any grade lower than a B in any subject.
                            It is interesting that instead of conversing so many saw this as a. opportunity to criticize my family's ability to get the boy to a library, or to suggest we are illiterate and have no books.
                            If I would not get banned I you tell you what I'm thinking about you.
                            As for cursive, who cares if future adults can not read the letters written between generals, or any other original source material, who cares?
                            Of course you are all correct. Nobody will care about the thoughts of great historical figures.
                            How silly of me. I was mistaken to believe we were all interested in history on a history forum.
                            I agree that cursive is obsolete and I'm not one of your critics.
                            A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                              Math, that is add, subtract, divide, multiply, and fractions should be taught by near rote methods. Speed and accuracy should be the desired outcome. There is little or no need for "spacial reasoning" or abstract methods of doing this sort of thing. It is basic to learning anything more in the field of mathematics.

                              Algebra follows math. Geometry follows that. Then comes trigonometry. Then calculus.
                              As a student who struggled when first introduced to algebra, I may differ a tad. I agree that the "sequential" math curricula were a complete waste: before the student had at least grown comfortable with algebra, they were moving on to trig. It was maddening. That being said, I didn't really master algebra and trig until I went to college -- despite attending one of the top academic high schools in the country, and having a math major for a step-father. The vast majority of elementary and high school math teachers I've known simply can't teach. They haven't that knack for communicating and impressing what are abstract ideas. Most math teachers are like foreign language teachers who were raised in the language they're teaching: they learned it as toddlers, intuitively, before they knew anything about structure and grammar, and they can't get that across, so they suck as teachers (best Spanish teacher I had was Roumanian.) The math teachers are like that, too: they know it, you don't, but since the teachers don't know how they learned it originally, they still can't teach it.

                              Maybe it's an American thing, 'cause in college I sat for a professor from Ivory Coast. His accent was so thick he was actually hard to understand at first -- but he had that knack for expressing the abstract and making it stick. I had another advantage in college, though: I took trig and microeconomics during the same semester, so I what learned in trig I got to use concretely in microeconomics. The latter not only reinforced the former, but made it real to me in a way that it hadn't been before. After that, I was able to get a real good handle on prob-stat and calc, too: I applied it immediately to price theory and econometrics.

                              I heard an MIT professor say that our high schools teach algebra all wrong, as if it's an extension of basic operative math. He went on to repeat something I'd heard from other super math geeks (step-father, sister, various co-workers) over the years: that they can visualize various expressions. I can do that now, but only after many thousands of repetitions and countless practical applications. One of the things that Common Core is trying to teach is this "visualization" aspect, by attacking simple problems from several different directions. In my opinion it'll only work if it's repeated ad nauseum, but I wouldn't pan it too quick: clearly something had to be done to pick up US' students dismal performance in math. Continuing with the same old routine obviously won't work, since it hasn't in at least four decades. Now Common Core's English language and writing component is pure crap, but I'm willing to give the math a least a shot.

                              Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                              Most students won't get much beyond algebra or geometry. That's not a bad thing per se. Most students K - 12 will never figure out calculus. It isn't a condemnation of them, it is simply something they are not going to figure out. Some students will be great athletes, or prodigies at music, others won't.
                              One thing Common Core and much of education today tries to do is somehow change that expecting "fair and equal" outcomes for all students as if all humans were identical and interchangeable.
                              You know, of course, that the education industry will never admit to such a thing: it'll cut too deep into their rice bowl. Parent as well will deny it. Who among us wants to admit that our little darling can't master high school academically? I find the very notion unfathomable. I'd have an easier time digesting Bigfoot than comping to grips with one of my beauties not being able to make it to college -- which, as we all know -- is no wondrous achievement. So no, we're going to continue to treat every child as if he or she is college bound, even if their future has gas station attendant written all over it.
                              I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Pirateship1982 View Post
                                I agree that cursive is obsolete and I'm not one of your critics.
                                Actually, the ability to actually be able to write is about as basic as things get.

                                The downside of a totally hi-tech society is the inability of that society to survive a major event that destroys or severely curtails that technology.

                                Remember the last time you were shopping and couldn't pay for purchases because the electricity went out, along with the scanners and credit card readers and nobody could just take your cash?

                                That's a harbinger of things to come. Technology is extremely useful to those who have a proper educational background - it's a crutch that will fail for those who don't.

                                I've run into countless clerks who don't how much change they are supposed to give me unless they can read it on the register. That is scary from a national survival point of view, because that is very simple math.

                                I've run into many sales people in places like hardware stores that can't figure simple areas and volumes in their heads, most recently at Home Depot in the paint department. We asked about the coverage for deck paint and the guy read it off the can. No problem there, but then he asked how large our deck was, I told him, and he froze up. He could not figure the square footage, divided by the coverage of a bucket of paint, and tell how much I needed. Fortunately for him, I can and I did - in nothing flat, out loud, which he found embarrassing. However, on his own he would have sold me much more than I needed because he had no idea how much was enough.

                                I remember the first time my stepson went with me to the hardware store to buy supplies for the large deck I built around our former mountain home. He ended up asking me how I came up with all of the numbers, and I was astonished, and asked him why he couldn't? And then I discovered that he had no idea how much change he should get, and I immediately began teaching him practical math because he couldn't even balance a checkbook despite the fact that he was ready to graduate from high school!

                                Now he's a foreman with an outfit that operates heavy construction equipment and thanks me every day for his ability to decide how much overburden needs to be removed or what area needs to be graded and how much soil that involves off the top of his head. Which is one reason he's a foreman over older men in the company...because he can figure out what he needs to do without a truckload of electronic toys simple by knowing the measurements of the area they are working.

                                America's non-educational system is circling the drain and it's only going to get worse. Tech is an aid to, not a substitute for, knowledge.
                                Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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