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Does immigration hurt the third world nations?

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  • Does immigration hurt the third world nations?

    The argument can be made that immigration systems as they stand now do hurt developing nations,

    Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
    Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

  • #2
    The answer is really, yes and no, not yes as in the video.

    The reason for that is that many Third World countries lack the resources to make the most of talent that is in the country. For example, a brilliant scientist in some Third World country might lack the facilities to make the most of his abilities whereas a civil engineer might be far more useful to such a nation building infrastructure.
    The cost of goods and materials to perform at a level similar to a First World country may be higher even if corruption and graft aren't present.
    Try building stuff in the middle of nowhere in the US. There's that show on right now, Building Alaska. Some of those projects have incredibly high costs due to the difficulty of transporting and delivering materials to the work site.

    So, yes and no.

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    • #3
      Recommend a specific country so we can examine the issue in more detail?
      We hunt the hunters

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      • #4
        Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
        The answer is really, yes and no, not yes as in the video.

        The reason for that is that many Third World countries lack the resources to make the most of talent that is in the country. For example, a brilliant scientist in some Third World country might lack the facilities to make the most of his abilities whereas a civil engineer might be far more useful to such a nation building infrastructure.
        The cost of goods and materials to perform at a level similar to a First World country may be higher even if corruption and graft aren't present.
        Try building stuff in the middle of nowhere in the US. There's that show on right now, Building Alaska. Some of those projects have incredibly high costs due to the difficulty of transporting and delivering materials to the work site.

        So, yes and no.
        I liked the point he made about how current immigration programs entice the very people that poor nations need to leave.
        I started thinking about what made good nations good, it was not just who immigrated to them, it was native born who stayed there and made it better,
        Commitment!
        Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
        Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
          I liked the point he made about how current immigration programs entice the very people that poor nations need to leave.
          I started thinking about what made good nations good, it was not just who immigrated to them, it was native born who stayed there and made it better,
          Commitment!
          But, what I'm pointing out is that you not only need the bright to stay, the productive to stay, but also that these people need to be in the right fields to move things forward. Hence, the answer isn't straight forward as it might appear in the video. A nation with severe infrastructure problems, needing roads, public works like water and sewers, and the like isn't going to benefit much from having a glut of theoretical physicists living there.
          Yea, the President for Life might benefit by getting nuclear weapons but that doesn't fix the country's problems...

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
            I liked the point he made about how current immigration programs entice the very people that poor nations need to leave.
            I started thinking about what made good nations good, it was not just who immigrated to them, it was native born who stayed there and made it better,
            Commitment!
            Brain drain is a well-recognized phenomenon. One of the benefits for a destination nation at the cost of the original nation.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
              But, what I'm pointing out is that you not only need the bright to stay, the productive to stay, but also that these people need to be in the right fields to move things forward. Hence, the answer isn't straight forward as it might appear in the video. A nation with severe infrastructure problems, needing roads, public works like water and sewers, and the like isn't going to benefit much from having a glut of theoretical physicists living there.
              Yea, the President for Life might benefit by getting nuclear weapons but that doesn't fix the country's problems...
              What is being overlooked here is that the majority of these troubled nations had all of that infrastructure during their colonial period, but allowed it to deteriorate and vanish because they could not and would not maintain it.

              So why is it any different today? Building infrastructure in places like that is just wasting money, since the locals still have no particular interest in maintaining it themselves.
              Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
                Brain drain is a well-recognized phenomenon. One of the benefits for a destination nation at the cost of the original nation.
                Then why are we getting the dregs of nations like Mexico and South America instead of the best and brightest?

                Why are the hundreds of thousands of refugees swamping Europe right now not the nest and brightest either?
                Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  Then why are we getting the dregs of nations like Mexico and South America instead of the best and brightest?
                  Because the smart ones won't pick lettuce in the fields all day?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by johns624 View Post
                    Because the smart ones won't pick lettuce in the fields all day?
                    Then why aren't those "bright ones" improving their nations? Or inventing a better way to pick crops?
                    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      Then why are we getting the dregs of nations like Mexico and South America instead of the best and brightest?

                      Why are the hundreds of thousands of refugees swamping Europe right now not the nest and brightest either?
                      And who is saying they're the dregs?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        Then why are we getting the dregs of nations like Mexico and South America instead of the best and brightest?

                        Why are the hundreds of thousands of refugees swamping Europe right now not the nest and brightest either?
                        Because they are coming illegally. The legal immigrants are held to higher standards.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          Then why aren't those "bright ones" improving their nations? Or inventing a better way to pick crops?
                          The Warlords that run the 3rd World don't WANT any smart people in their country, smart people would see through all the BS and overthrow the evil scum that are pushing them around all the time.

                          And if they can also get rid of their own over-population problems without having to bother with digging any mass-graves, then so much the better.

                          THAT is the mentality you are dealing with in the 3rd world.
                          Most of Africa, Central America, the Muddle East and even parts of Asia.
                          "Why is the Rum gone?"

                          -Captain Jack

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                          • #14
                            The answer is 'yes' it does hurt the 3rd world countries, in my opinion. The example of the scientists and engineers not having the resources to do anything useful, so leaving is a better option, is better for the scientist or engineer but not their home country. Having any educated people who are capable of initiating positive change leave to pursue their career in a country that can afford them can't possibly be good for the country that loses them. Using the example of building stuff in the wilds of Alaska: what if the people that are trying to build stuff just leave? What'll get accomplished?
                            The one way I can think of that emigrating helps the 3rd world countries is that it helps the powers-that-be retain their positions. The fact that people can leave and migrate elsewhere acts as a safety valve that prevents social pressure from building to the point where action is taken, so people like the ruling party in Mexico are more than happy to encourage people who have initiative to hit the road. They absolutely encourage emigration both legal and illegal...otherwise why would they call us racist when someone in the US says we need to put a stop to it?

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                            • #15
                              I think it's in fact very selfish. People bang on here about how the NHS depends so much on Drs and nurses from Africa and Asia . I think we import out shortages away whilst sucking all the best medical personnel from nations who truly need them. Nations that many of these people bang on so much about needing our help.

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