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  • #46
    Originally posted by dgfred View Post
    I am speaking of my area... don't know about yours.

    I have seen first hand... nothing but that convinced me of anything. You might not want to make such broad accusations of what other people think.

    *We have a high number of illegals/not-legal but can work... working in the fields here.
    *I have a Spanish interpreter in my office... and many/MANY latinos insured with our Agency.
    *I have witnessed first hand in the emergency room what happens when someone has no coverage. It doesn't make a difference (they have to accept you) until the bills go out. They do not have to pay... I do.

    Corrupt has NOTHING to do with it. They are not doing anything wrong... they just are not required to pay due to the present procedures.
    An illegal here can have 3 kids in the U.S.A. and get every one of them on medicare. Don't work and don't have to. Many do still, but...

    If I don't pay I am turned over to a collection agency/etc.

    Criminal activity is in every walk of life... not just insurance. What do you do for a living?
    Corrupt has EVERYTHING to do with it, since they are Federal criminals by definition under Federal law for sneaking into this country in the first place.

    And your straw argument is meaningless and lessens your original argument considerably. I was formerly a medical practitioner. The laws for practice are extremely strict and people go to prison for any attempt to practice in violation of those laws, especially if they sneaked into America illegally and began practicing. That's Federal prison.

    But hey...let's talk about how many laws you have broken...
    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

    Comment


    • #47
      What the are you talking about?

      A person on welfare or without medical coverage gets treatment at the emergency room... they don't pay and I do. Corruption has nothing to do with it regardless of your nonsense post.

      Meaningless to someone who takes it in such a wrong way... yeah probably.
      SPORTS FREAK/ PANZERBLITZ COMMANDER/ CC2 COMMANDER

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Grognard Gunny View Post
        Only in your dreams. (If , etc.)

        GG

        I've been known to dream big. But I hear you, it's unrealistic.

        Comment


        • #49
          That's the surfer dude in ya!
          SPORTS FREAK/ PANZERBLITZ COMMANDER/ CC2 COMMANDER

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by dgfred View Post
            I am an Insurance Agent.
            My father is the owner of our Agency.
            This is very important to me and my business.
            Greg, the below link is an interesting article, I am interested in your take on it:

            The fundamental problem with ACA is that under it, insurance ceases to be insurance. Insurance is a prospective financial product, one that exploits the mathematical predictability of certain life events among very large groups of people — out of 1 million 40-to-60-year-old Americans, x percent will get in car wrecks every year, and y percent will be diagnosed with chronic renal failure — which allows actuaries and the insurance companies that employ them to calculate premiums based on risk, thus funding the reimbursement of certain expenses incurred by the insurance pool’s members. Insurance is, by its very nature, always forward-looking, considering events that have yet to come to pass but that may be expected and, to a reasonable extent, predicted with some level of specificity. Under ACA, insurance is retrospective. ACA mandates that insurance companies cover pre-existing conditions, meaning events that already have happened, which renders the basic mathematical architecture of insurance — the calculation of risk among large pools of people — pointless. Insurance ceases to be insurance and instead becomes something else, namely a very badly constructed cost-sharing program.

            http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...uOGDI2rEITd.01
            "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

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            • #51
              Exactly right. Thanks for posting it.
              SPORTS FREAK/ PANZERBLITZ COMMANDER/ CC2 COMMANDER

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Nichols View Post
                Greg, the below link is an interesting article, I am interested in your take on it:

                The fundamental problem with ACA is that under it, insurance ceases to be insurance. Insurance is a prospective financial product, one that exploits the mathematical predictability of certain life events among very large groups of people — out of 1 million 40-to-60-year-old Americans, x percent will get in car wrecks every year, and y percent will be diagnosed with chronic renal failure — which allows actuaries and the insurance companies that employ them to calculate premiums based on risk, thus funding the reimbursement of certain expenses incurred by the insurance pool’s members. Insurance is, by its very nature, always forward-looking, considering events that have yet to come to pass but that may be expected and, to a reasonable extent, predicted with some level of specificity. Under ACA, insurance is retrospective. ACA mandates that insurance companies cover pre-existing conditions, meaning events that already have happened, which renders the basic mathematical architecture of insurance — the calculation of risk among large pools of people — pointless. Insurance ceases to be insurance and instead becomes something else, namely a very badly constructed cost-sharing program.

                http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...uOGDI2rEITd.01
                In short, it Socializes health insurance.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by dgfred View Post
                  What the are you talking about?

                  A person on welfare or without medical coverage gets treatment at the emergency room... they don't pay and I do. Corruption has nothing to do with it regardless of your nonsense post.

                  Meaningless to someone who takes it in such a wrong way... yeah probably.
                  What are you talking about, and to whom? An d why the profanity? Having trouble expressing yourself?

                  You posted THIS:
                  Corrupt has NOTHING to do with it. They are not doing anything wrong.
                  Remember?
                  Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Pirateship1982 View Post
                    It doesn't matter whether you buy it or not. The math is plain and simple. Every person who requires medical treatment costs money. If a person takes medical treatment without paying then they burden the system. Those burdens can't be ignored, someone has to pay the bill. The hospitals survive by passing the expense onto paying customers. The customers pass it on to insurance companies. And the more insurance companies have to pay, the higher the premiums are.

                    The power company doesn't take human kindness and goodwill as payment. Neither do nurses, doctors, or pharmaceutical companies. That business requires cash. Anyone who doesn't provide it is a burden.
                    By definition it is a burden for uninsured folks to be taken in by hospitals. The current system here in the USA allows for basically any injured person to be treated at a hospital. I for one, and many other Americans would agree with treating an uninsured injured person at a hospitable. And yes your going to have bad guys being treated under this system as well. As we know, and agree with it or not the policies are there...even if some guy goes out and gets injured while attempting to rob a gas station, that guy is going to get treated at a hospital.


                    Wrt doctor and hospital visits I have not had to pay any unreasonable co pays at any point in my life. Have you noticed that your co pays have gone up?

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by dgfred View Post
                      I am speaking of my area... don't know about yours.

                      I have seen first hand... nothing but that convinced me of anything. You might not want to make such broad accusations of what other people think.

                      *We have a high number of illegals/not-legal but can work... working in the fields here.
                      *I have a Spanish interpreter in my office... and many/MANY latinos insured with our Agency.
                      *I have witnessed first hand in the emergency room what happens when someone has no coverage. It doesn't make a difference (they have to accept you) until the bills go out. They do not have to pay... I do.

                      Corrupt has NOTHING to do with it. They are not doing anything wrong... they just are not required to pay due to the present procedures.
                      An illegal here can have 3 kids in the U.S.A. and get every one of them on medicare. Don't work and don't have to. Many do still, but...

                      If I don't pay I am turned over to a collection agency/etc.

                      Criminal activity is in every walk of life... not just insurance. What do you do for a living?
                      The key here though is that not all illegals are a problem, as you know. Some are here doing great work and helping to strengthen the USA. So for me its not a "they", it cant be a they. Rather it must be some, some illegals are causing trouble here in the USA.



                      So these folks are able to get emergency medical care, but these folks also pay taxes similar to the taxes that citizens pay.

                      http://www.tolerance.org/immigration-myths

                      Also take a look at this link, which make valid counterpoints to a # of the anti immigration views.

                      Undocumented immigrants don’t pay taxes but still get benefits.


                      Ask students what are some ways Americans pay taxes, as in income tax and sales tax. Undocumented immigrants pay taxes every time they buy gas, clothes or new appliances. They also contribute to property taxes—a main source of school funding—when they buy or rent a house, or rent an apartment. The U.S. Social Security Administration estimated that in 2013 undocumented immigrants—and their employers—paid $13 billion in payroll taxes alone for benefits they will never get. They can receive schooling and emergency medical care, but not welfare or food stamps.

                      http://www.tolerance.org/immigration-myths


                      A few more things just must be added. The USA is a great country with the worlds strongest military. Today many folks around the world dream of coming to the USA for a better life. Were doing pretty good IMO.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by dgfred View Post
                        I am speaking of my area... don't know about yours.

                        I have seen first hand... nothing but that convinced me of anything. You might not want to make such broad accusations of what other people think.

                        *We have a high number of illegals/not-legal but can work... working in the fields here.
                        *I have a Spanish interpreter in my office... and many/MANY latinos insured with our Agency.
                        *I have witnessed first hand in the emergency room what happens when someone has no coverage. It doesn't make a difference (they have to accept you) until the bills go out. They do not have to pay... I do.

                        Corrupt has NOTHING to do with it. They are not doing anything wrong... they just are not required to pay due to the present procedures.
                        An illegal here can have 3 kids in the U.S.A. and get every one of them on medicare. Don't work and don't have to. Many do still, but...

                        If I don't pay I am turned over to a collection agency/etc.

                        Criminal activity is in every walk of life... not just insurance. What do you do for a living?
                        You are only partially correct.

                        If an illegal is admitted to an emergency room in the US they will be seen and treated as a patient without insurance would be. That is, they get the minimum possible treatment to leave then in a stable enough condition to be discharged.
                        The hospital is not legally required to report their presence to ICE, although I think they should be required to. The usual argument against such laws is one of "If we do that illegals would be afraid to use hospitals..." Well, most criminals who have medical conditions are afraid to use hospitals, like ones with gunshot wounds, as those are legally required to be reported to law enforcement. So to should be illegals who are here in criminal violation of our laws.

                        As to payment... Most hospitals, particularly those in the Southwest US know that they aren't going to get payment for services when they treat such patients. So, they jack up rates on the rest of us to pay for that. Of course, there are plenty of deadbeat legal citizens who go to the emergency room too, even when they already owe the hospital big for previous admissions. The hospital can't turn them away.
                        That's why so many emergency rooms have closed. They are wide open running debt sores for hospitals. No emergency room = better profitability.

                        It isn't the system that's corrupt. It's individuals like criminal illegal immigrants, deadbeat criminally mined individuals, and the like who are knowingly and willingly taking advantage of the system.

                        One way to fix that is, since hospitals / emergency rooms are public service providers of a sort and mandated by law to take anyone who shows up at their door for service, regardless of ability to pay we do the following.
                        If you owe the hospital more than say $1500 (the amount could be higher or lower) in payments and haven't paid or tried to honor that debt, you will be leaving in a police vehicle for a stay at the county jail until your court date where you'll be charged with being a deadbeat, etc. If you are here illegally, you will be reported to ICE, and local law enforcement will take you to jail following treatment to ensure ICE comes to deport you.
                        If you stop coddling criminals most criminals will stop acting that way. Yes, some still will, but most will find some less certain way to go to jail.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by dgfred View Post
                          @ Savez
                          Can he afford a very high deductible ObamaCare plan for a couple of years?
                          He may be able to get some discounts due to age and income.

                          Are short-term medical plans available in his area? They usually go for 6 months at a time.

                          Just some ideas.
                          I think that may be his only options right now.
                          “I do not wish to have the slave emancipated because I love him, but because I hate his master."
                          --Salmon P. Chase

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