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  • #16
    It is a given; If you put a price support under something.... the price will go up to include that support price and THEN some actual cost.

    GG
    "The will of a section rooted in self interest, should not outweigh the vital interests of a whole people." -Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain-

    "Fanatics of any sort are dangerous." -GG-

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Taieb el-Okbi View Post
      The USA offers folks excellent healthcare options, whether its an insurance plan that comes with your employer or a plan that you get on your own.
      That wasn't my point. My point is that health care costs in the US are skyrocketing because of the massive use of insurance to pay for everything, and laws like Obamacare only making that worse.

      Cosmetic surgery is cheap by comparison because its cost is market driven. The buyer has to pay out of pocket not through insurance.

      In England, the NHS in the UK is now the 5th largest employer on the planet right behind McDonald's and the largest in the UK by far. That should tell you something about the idiocy of nationalized health insurance and health care.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Taieb el-Okbi View Post
        Sorry dgfred but this whole anti healthcare discussion in the USA is IMO blown out of proportion by the folks who find that Obamas healthcare policies are the end of the world.
        I understand and recognize your opinion .

        But you need to understand:

        I am an Insurance Agent.
        My father is the owner of our Agency.
        This is very important to me and my business.

        This has been devastating to us because of paying for employee coverage or giving extra pay to compensate for not paying, health insurance companies are dropping out of the health business, the only plans available are expensive or ObamaCare and loss of health ins. business in general.

        Not the end of the World... but it sure sucks .

        If you have any questions about the in's and out's of Insurance just ask away.
        SPORTS FREAK/ PANZERBLITZ COMMANDER/ CC2 COMMANDER

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Taieb el-Okbi View Post
          Sorry dgfred but this whole anti healthcare discussion in the USA is IMO blown out of proportion by the folks who find that Obamas healthcare policies are the end of the world.
          Sorry, but my objections to Obama care are based on a realistic evaluation of government effectiveness in the delivery of goods or services.
          My healthcare is too important to me to meekly accept that its control should be handed over to the government.
          When you can identify any area where the government delivers goods and services more effectively than the private sector, I will listen. Until then I will rely on facts, like the treatment our vets received from the VA or the disaster that is Medicare.

          The VA is an excellent example of my point. There, the government officials lied about the program rather than simply provide the services that were mandated.
          Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

          Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
            That wasn't my point. My point is that health care costs in the US are skyrocketing because of the massive use of insurance to pay for everything, and laws like Obamacare only making that worse.

            Cosmetic surgery is cheap by comparison because its cost is market driven. The buyer has to pay out of pocket not through insurance.

            In England, the NHS in the UK is now the 5th largest employer on the planet right behind McDonald's and the largest in the UK by far. That should tell you something about the idiocy of nationalized health insurance and health care.

            Some folks get health insurance through their employer. Even with the current health care policies here in the USA, your going to find most employed folks whose employer offers insurance, has a good insurance program.

            Then their are folks who go out and pay for their own health insurance through a company that they select. So the buyer in this case has the opportunity to explore different plans and see what those plans offer.

            Also their are the folks whom are employed but not offered health insurance through their employer, as well as the unemployed folks w/o health insurance. If the folks w/o health insurance choose to go uninsured, they pay a fine at the end of the year, a fine of which is not to high of a fee.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by dgfred View Post
              I understand and recognize your opinion .

              But you need to understand:

              I am an Insurance Agent.
              My father is the owner of our Agency.
              This is very important to me and my business.

              This has been devastating to us because of paying for employee coverage or giving extra pay to compensate for not paying, health insurance companies are dropping out of the health business, the only plans available are expensive or ObamaCare and loss of health ins. business in general.

              Not the end of the World... but it sure sucks .

              If you have any questions about the in's and out's of Insurance just ask away.
              Firstly I hope your company has success. I have worked in the Insurance industry and I have always felt for the folks out there who apply for insurance(home owners, restaurant owners, business owners etc) but for w/e reason, are declined. Obv your going to find corruption just about anywhere but I would wager you guys are one of the good companies. I also do not have as much exp in the insurance industry as you do, so any comments from you are appreciated.

              I also know this much partner, there are insurance companies out there having success and there are insurance companies out there not doing so well.


              How long have you been in business and have you previously had health insurance related issues?

              Have you tried getting in touch with a local politician or maybe even going higher?

              Surely something can be worked out here, how about contacting a lawyer of some sorts. Or maybe you have a friend who is a lawyer and can offer free advice.

              Finally, if you have had success before(and it sounds like you have) your going to have it again, its just a matter of time.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Taieb el-Okbi View Post
                Some folks get health insurance through their employer. Even with the current health care policies here in the USA, your going to find most employed folks whose employer offers insurance, has a good insurance program.

                Then their are folks who go out and pay for their own health insurance through a company that they select. So the buyer in this case has the opportunity to explore different plans and see what those plans offer.

                Also their are the folks whom are employed but not offered health insurance through their employer, as well as the unemployed folks w/o health insurance. If the folks w/o health insurance choose to go uninsured, they pay a fine at the end of the year, a fine of which is not to high of a fee.

                I like the insurance that I get from my employer. It would be considered a “Cadillac plan”. For example I had a stroke 4 years ago it cost more than $91,000 in hospital stays, treatments and rehab. It cost me $1,000 that was it. Now because of O'Bama care the company is thinking of going with a lower rated plan since “ Cadillac plans” cost the company a penalty since they are too good. This if nothing else is why I despise government interference in things that they have no business in.
                Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedy. -- Ernest Benn

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Taieb el-Okbi View Post
                  Some folks get health insurance through their employer. Even with the current health care policies here in the USA, your going to find most employed folks whose employer offers insurance, has a good insurance program.

                  Then their are folks who go out and pay for their own health insurance through a company that they select. So the buyer in this case has the opportunity to explore different plans and see what those plans offer.

                  Also their are the folks whom are employed but not offered health insurance through their employer, as well as the unemployed folks w/o health insurance. If the folks w/o health insurance choose to go uninsured, they pay a fine at the end of the year, a fine of which is not to high of a fee.
                  And, they are all paying more than market price for having insurance that covers virtually all of their medical care. It isn't about who's paying for the insurance. It's about insurance having driven up prices artificially higher than they otherwise would be.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Taieb el-Okbi View Post
                    Have you tried getting in touch with a local politician or maybe even going higher?

                    Surely something can be worked out here, how about contacting a lawyer of some sorts. Or maybe you have a friend who is a lawyer and can offer free advice.
                    They wouldn't need to do any of those things if the government would just stay the hell out of things they have no reason to be involved in.
                    Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedy. -- Ernest Benn

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Tsar View Post
                      I like the insurance that I get from my employer. It would be considered a “Cadillac plan”. For example I had a stroke 4 years ago it cost more than $91,000 in hospital stays, treatments and rehab. It cost me $1,000 that was it. Now because of O'Bama care the company is thinking of going with a lower rated plan since “ Cadillac plans” cost the company a penalty since they are too good. This if nothing else is why I despise government interference in things that they have no business in.
                      Firstly I hope your doing better.

                      Well here you said it, your company is thinking of going with a lower plan. So your plan has not changed yet and from what it sounds like, it appears you have a good health insurance plan. Do you feel right saying that its because of "Obama care" that your company is thinking of going with a lower rated plan. Or maybe the issue here is not because of Obama but because your company is dealing with the trends of business.

                      As for "Gov interference in things". We have an elected gov here in the US , so there is gov involvement in various aspect of life.

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                      • #26
                        About "Cadillac plans."

                        http://www.insurance.com/health-insu...illac-tax.html

                        Starting in 2018, insurers of employer-sponsored group health plans and companies that self-insure their own plans will be subject to an excise tax if their plan cost tops $10,200 for single person's health coverage and $27,500 for family health coverage. Thresholds are higher for plans covering retirees and workers in high-risk jobs, like oil riggers, firefighters and longshoremen ($11,850 for an individual plan and $30,950 for a family plan).

                        The theory is this "Cadillac tax," as its been dubbed, will encourage companies to choose lower cost plans, and in turn free up money to pay workers higher, taxable wages. Not to mention, it will boost revenue paid to the federal coffers.

                        But roughly 60 percent of large employers -- those with more than 500 employees -- believe their plans would trigger the tax in 2018 unless they take action to avoid it, according to a 2011 survey by Mercer, a human resources consulting firm.
                        If you think employees will get raises just because their health care plan costs and quality of coverage go down, I'd say you need professional help or should stop smoking whatever it is you're smoking because you are delusional.

                        What this part of Obamacare does is lower the quality of many health insurance plans employers now offer their employees. It's as much about "Fair and Equal, Social and Economic Justice" as it is about any attempt to keep costs down or benefit workers.
                        It's as much about the idea "Why should workers at a large successful company get better health insurance than workers at small struggling companies get?" That's the sort of thinking that pervades the Progressive Left. "It's so unfair!" they'll claim.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Taieb el-Okbi View Post
                          Firstly I hope your doing better.
                          I'm fine, full recovery. Thanks in no small part because of the insurance that I had.

                          Originally posted by Taieb el-Okbi View Post
                          Well here you said it, your company is thinking of going with a lower plan. So your plan has not changed yet and from what it sounds like, it appears you have a good health insurance plan. Do you feel right saying that its because of "Obama care" that your company is thinking of going with a lower rated plan. Or maybe the issue here is not because of Obama but because your company is dealing with the trends of business.
                          They have always had the best insurance that they can get. Since O'Bama care was shoved down our throats they have said that they are not willing to provide us with the best and pay the penalty for having the best plan. I see no reason to doubt what they say.


                          Originally posted by Taieb el-Okbi View Post
                          As for "Gov interference in things". We have an elected gov here in the US , so there is gov involvement in various aspect of life.
                          Over half the people don't want this government imposed monstrosity but the socialist that are the Democrats wanted it and they used every possible maneuver legal or otherwise to get it passed and keep it “legal” regardless of what the people really want.
                          Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedy. -- Ernest Benn

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                          • #28
                            I would like to hear more about the Republican's proposal to replace Obamacare. It's called the Patient Choice, Affordability, Responsibility and Empowerment Act.
                            “Someone who doesn’t know is less stupid than someone who wrongly think he knows."

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Nikki View Post
                              I would like to hear more about the Republican's proposal to replace Obamacare. It's called the Patient Choice, Affordability, Responsibility and Empowerment Act.
                              Why replace it? Just repeal it in its entirety. Then work to get insurance out of paying for the majority of health care altogether.

                              Although, if it had to be replaced, I could do a better job than the Democrats did and with just a handful of pages of bill.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                                Why replace it? Just repeal it in its entirety. Then work to get insurance out of paying for the majority of health care altogether.

                                Although, if it had to be replaced, I could do a better job than the Democrats did and with just a handful of pages of bill.

                                It would be a big mistake to run on repealing it. It would prove correct, those who claim the Republicans are ruthless and do not care about the poor and needy. So why not tinker with it and make it work?

                                Let's relegate the State Insurance Exchange to the truly poor and fund it separately. We can call it reform instead of repeal.
                                “Someone who doesn’t know is less stupid than someone who wrongly think he knows."

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