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US Government Strong-Arms the Little Guy Yet Again

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  • US Government Strong-Arms the Little Guy Yet Again

    And people ask why we would need to defend ourselves against our own government. Too bad the Groom Mine owners have lost their 60-year fight against the government...

  • #2
    Family rejected a 5.2 milion buyout. They are still going to be compensated for the land.
    First Counsul Maleketh of Jonov

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Armored Fist View Post
      And people ask why we would need to defend ourselves against our own government. Too bad the Groom Mine owners have lost their 60-year fight against the government...
      They were offered $5.2 million and they turned it down; seriously! My final duty station was not too far from that location. There is nothing out there except for rocks, cactuses, Joshua trees and more rocks. I am not a supporter of eminent domain but if I owned a parcel of ocean-less beach like that and I was offered $5.2 million for it I would be laughing all the way to the bank. By the way, how would defend yourself? The Chair Force may not be known its testosterone laden machismo but let assure you that the AF security folks are as proficient as they come and they would have made short work of any resistance, armed or otherwise.
      Give me a fast ship and the wind at my back for I intend to sail in harms way! (John Paul Jones)

      Initiated Chief Petty Officer
      Hard core! Old School! Deal with it!

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Delenda estRoma View Post
        Family rejected a 5.2 milion buyout. They are still going to be compensated for the land.
        Because you're supposed to roll over and give up over 150 years of property ownership because someone from the Air Force offers you money.

        Area 51 has been around for decades along with the other 50+ "Areas" as subdivided by the Atomic Energy Commission, and the Groom Mine property owned by the Shehans for over a century before that. If it was needed in all the vasty nothingness that is the Groom Lake site the AF currently owns, then why didn't the government buy it in the 40s or 50s or 60s or 70s?

        A government strong enough to give you everything you want is a government strong enough to take everything you have.
        Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

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        • #5
          "eminent domain".....=roll over and take what we give you...but in any event, roll over.
          ARRRR! International Talk Like A Pirate Day - September 19th
          IN MARE IN COELO

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Bass_Man86 View Post
            They were offered $5.2 million and they turned it down; seriously! My final duty station was not too far from that location. There is nothing out there except for rocks, cactuses, Joshua trees and more rocks. I am not a supporter of eminent domain but if I owned a parcel of ocean-less beach like that and I was offered $5.2 million for it I would be laughing all the way to the bank. By the way, how would defend yourself? The Chair Force may not be known its testosterone laden machismo but let assure you that the AF security folks are as proficient as they come and they would have made short work of any resistance, armed or otherwise.
            Well, despite the fact that they are being FORCED to do something against their will, there is a great deal of ore on that land, and some estimates have valued the property and everything on it closer to 150-200 Million. Oh, and this land has been there a great deal longer than the Chair Force.

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            • #7
              US Constitution...
              Amendment V

              No person shall ... be deprived of ... property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

              Eminent domain allows the government to take private property "for public use," provided they provide "just compensation" to the owners.
              • The Groom Lake Mine has been privately owned since Ulysses S. Grant was President. The Air Force arrived in the 1940's when they established the Groom Lake testing facility (AKA Area 51).
              • For 60+ years, throughout the entire Cold War, the Air Force saw no need to seize this property.
              • Now, all of the sudden, the Air Force determined that private ownership of this land is an unaffordable "safety and security risk."


              Firstly, this is unbelievable. There must be an ulterior motive for this. Secondly, the Air Force is not seizing this property for public use. They are taking it because private ownership of it has suddenly become an inconvenience.

              This is a grotesque abuse of the power of eminent domain and flagrantly pisses on the takings clause of the Fifth Amendment.

              SOP for the Maobama Maladministration.
              Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

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              • #8
                The USAF is full of .... The mine / property doesn't even overlook Groom Lake / Area 51. Sure it's nearby like 20 miles away, but you have a better view from a satellite than they do.

                Given mineral rights, the land itself, and the dozens of buildings in reasonable shape on it, upwards of $100 million seems fair.

                Also, given that the federal government owns like 95% of the state of Nevada I think that they should be forced to sell off roughly 60% of their holdings not only to help pay the national debt off but to allow that land to be useful to somebody since all it does now is sit fallow and unused.

                I'm betting this is really a ploy to grab the land because environmentalists want to prevent it ever being mined.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
                  US Constitution...
                  Amendment V

                  No person shall ... be deprived of ... property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

                  Eminent domain allows the government to take private property "for public use," provided they provide "just compensation" to the owners.
                  • The Groom Lake Mine has been privately owned since Ulysses S. Grant was President. The Air Force arrived in the 1940's when they established the Groom Lake testing facility (AKA Area 51).
                  • For 60+ years, throughout the entire Cold War, the Air Force saw no need to seize this property.
                  • Now, all of the sudden, the Air Force determined that private ownership of this land is an unaffordable "safety and security risk."


                  Firstly, this is unbelievable. There must be an ulterior motive for this. Secondly, the Air Force is not seizing this property for public use. They are taking it because private ownership of it has suddenly become an inconvenience.

                  This is a grotesque abuse of the power of eminent domain and flagrantly pisses on the takings clause of the Fifth Amendment.

                  SOP for the Maobama Maladministration.

                  Yup just the President wanting to **** off conservatives via the Air Force.

                  Doc, how do you feel about Eminent Domain use by private companies? Suddenly it's for ACTUAL private use, I'm sure that you'd not support any such thing.
                  “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                  “To talk of many things:
                  Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                  Of cabbages—and kings—
                  And why the sea is boiling hot—
                  And whether pigs have wings.”
                  ― Lewis Carroll

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Armored Fist View Post
                    Well, despite the fact that they are being FORCED to do something against their will, there is a great deal of ore on that land, and some estimates have valued the property and everything on it closer to 150-200 Million. Oh, and this land has been there a great deal longer than the Chair Force.
                    The Federal Judges order only approved the condemnation via Eminent Domain. The owners still have a Jury trail ahead of them that determines the actual price. They can bring forth evidence and witness to back up their claims on the lands value and the Jury will determine the final value. Just like it is supposed to happen.
                    “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                    “To talk of many things:
                    Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                    Of cabbages—and kings—
                    And why the sea is boiling hot—
                    And whether pigs have wings.”
                    ― Lewis Carroll

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The owners refused the Air Forces offer of an outside company doing a onsite appraisal of the land. Now we'll find out the value. Owners made claims on the value but never produced an actual appraisal.

                      http://www.lasvegasnow.com/news/us-a...-mine-property

                      Throughout its negotiations with the landowners the Air Force offered to accomplish an appraisal of the property and mining claims at no expense to the owners and pay them no less than the appraised value of their property. An appraisal could not be accomplished because the Air Force could not obtain permission to enter onto the property.
                      “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                      “To talk of many things:
                      Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                      Of cabbages—and kings—
                      And why the sea is boiling hot—
                      And whether pigs have wings.”
                      ― Lewis Carroll

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        And there are still those who delude themselves into thinking the military isn't part of "big government".

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
                          And there are still those who delude themselves into thinking the military isn't part of "big government".
                          Only one reason they are upset, and the AF is NOT the reason..... I bet you can guess the actual reason.
                          “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                          “To talk of many things:
                          Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                          Of cabbages—and kings—
                          And why the sea is boiling hot—
                          And whether pigs have wings.”
                          ― Lewis Carroll

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                            Yup just the President wanting to **** off conservatives via the Air Force.
                            The Groom Lake Test Facility was established in 1955. For 60 years, including almost all of the Cold War, there was no need to seize this property. The administrations of Ike, JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush-41, Clinton and Bush-43 saw no need to seize this property for public use. Suddenly, the Maobama maladministration needs it.

                            I suppose this could be a coincidence...


                            Originally posted by Combat Engineer
                            Doc, how do you feel about Eminent Domain use by private companies? Suddenly it's for ACTUAL private use, I'm sure that you'd not support any such thing.
                            This notwithstanding...


                            I am opposed to government use of eminent domain to enable private sector companies to acquire land to build shopping malls, sports stadiums, condominiums. These are not

                            Railroads, pipelines, power lines, telephone lines, reservoir impoundments and other "common carrier" projects are examples of the proper government use of eminent domain on behalf of private sector companies, because these are genuinely for public use.
                            Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
                              The Groom Lake Test Facility was established in 1955. For 60 years, including almost all of the Cold War, there was no need to seize this property. The administrations of Ike, JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush-41, Clinton and Bush-43 saw no need to seize this property for public use. Suddenly, the Maobama maladministration needs it.

                              I suppose this could be a coincidence...



                              This notwithstanding...


                              I am opposed to government use of eminent domain to enable private sector companies to acquire land to build shopping malls, sports stadiums, condominiums. These are not

                              Railroads, pipelines, power lines, telephone lines, reservoir impoundments and other "common carrier" projects are examples of the proper government use of eminent domain on behalf of private sector companies, because these are genuinely for public use.
                              Please explain the use the public gets out of pipeline from production area to refinery. Do they share the profits?

                              The AF needs changed, can you show that they have not?

                              I guess you fought the Texas Rangers stadium and the Cowboys stadium projects?
                              “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                              “To talk of many things:
                              Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                              Of cabbages—and kings—
                              And why the sea is boiling hot—
                              And whether pigs have wings.”
                              ― Lewis Carroll

                              Comment

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