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  • Inmates beat Harvard in debate

    Seems you don't have to go to an Ivy League school to be smarter than their students...

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/har...zB&ocid=SMSDHP

    BOSTON Months after winning a national title, Harvard's debate team has fallen to a group of New York inmates.

    The showdown took place at the Eastern New York Correctional Facility, a maximum-security prison where convicts can take courses taught by faculty from nearby Bard College, and where inmates have formed a popular debate club. Last month, they invited the Ivy League undergraduates and this year's national debate champions over for a friendly competition.

    Against Harvard, the inmates were tasked with defending a position they opposed: They had to argue that public schools should be allowed to turn away students whose parents entered the U.S. illegally. The inmates brought up arguments that the Harvard team hadn't considered. Three students from Harvard's team responded, and a panel of neutral judges declared the inmates victorious.

  • #2
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Seems you don't have to go to an Ivy League school to be smarter than their students...

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/har...zB&ocid=SMSDHP
    The Maobama Maladministration is proof of this.
    Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

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    • #3
      well....duh!

      Well, of course the inmates won. I mean what else do they have to do all day but practice debate tactics. The Harvard team, however, has to deal with the vagaries of daily life. I mean, look at all the stuff they have to do as well as practice their debate. They have to think about getting up, finding breakfast, going to classes, negotiating the traffic on Mass. Ave., standing in line for Dunkin' Donuts coffee, checking out their co-ed counterparts, call home for more $$$$$, check their e-mail, twitter accounts, facebook page and all other social media sources, then they need to go to lunch.
      Face it, the Harvard team was doomed from the start...
      ARRRR! International Talk Like A Pirate Day - September 19th
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      • #4
        But the inmates still aren't good enough to talk the Warden into letting them attend away matches
        Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
        Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Jose50 View Post
          Well, of course the inmates won. I mean what else do they have to do all day but practice debate tactics. The Harvard team, however, has to deal with the vagaries of daily life. I mean, look at all the stuff they have to do as well as practice their debate. They have to think about getting up, finding breakfast, going to classes, negotiating the traffic on Mass. Ave., standing in line for Dunkin' Donuts coffee, checking out their co-ed counterparts, call home for more $$$$$, check their e-mail, twitter accounts, facebook page and all other social media sources, then they need to go to lunch.
          Face it, the Harvard team was doomed from the start...
          They all happened to be on the wrong side of a no brainer issue.
          It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself-- Th. Jefferson

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Jose50 View Post
            Well, of course the inmates won. I mean what else do they have to do all day but practice debate tactics. The Harvard team, however, has to deal with the vagaries of daily life. I mean, look at all the stuff they have to do as well as practice their debate. They have to think about getting up, finding breakfast, going to classes, negotiating the traffic on Mass. Ave., standing in line for Dunkin' Donuts coffee, checking out their co-ed counterparts, call home for more $$$$$, check their e-mail, twitter accounts, facebook page and all other social media sources, then they need to go to lunch.
            Face it, the Harvard team was doomed from the start...
            All that and the inmates didn't have to contend with being smug geniuses...

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            • #7
              No surprise there: the Harvard alumni that I've known have consistently underwhelmed me with their acumen. It seems as if for them their biggest accomplishment will be receiving a sheepskin from Harvard: after that it's all a coast.
              I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Jose50 View Post
                Well, of course the inmates won. I mean what else do they have to do all day but practice debate tactics. The Harvard team, however, has to deal with the vagaries of daily life. I mean, look at all the stuff they have to do as well as practice their debate. They have to think about getting up, finding breakfast, going to classes, negotiating the traffic on Mass. Ave., standing in line for Dunkin' Donuts coffee, checking out their co-ed counterparts, call home for more $$$$$, check their e-mail, twitter accounts, facebook page and all other social media sources, then they need to go to lunch.
                Face it, the Harvard team was doomed from the start...
                And they have to overcome their built-in education politically liberal bias...

                Doesn't say much for the college system, though.
                Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by MarkV View Post
                  But the inmates still aren't good enough to talk the Warden into letting them attend away matches
                  Baby steps...and they can attend anything by using the internet and video conferencing.

                  Just think, a Harvard education used to mean something.
                  Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                  • #10
                    Considering one of the most important qualifications for attending Harvard is having a relative who attended Harvard, it's not much surprise there. Academic incest, just as in politics, the military, and every other realm, isn't conducive to progress and success.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
                      Considering one of the most important qualifications for attending Harvard is having a relative who attended Harvard, it's not much surprise there. Academic incest, just as in politics, the military, and every other realm, isn't conducive to progress and success.
                      I would dispute that. The people I know who graduated from there, including my father and a cousin, were well qualified and got in on their merits.

                      Any proof to back up your statement?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by lakechampainer View Post
                        I would dispute that. The people I know who graduated from there, including my father and a cousin, were well qualified and got in on their merits.

                        Any proof to back up your statement?
                        Have you not just read that the Harvard debate team was soundly defeated by a bunch of convicts? That's all the proof anyone needs.

                        As for Harvard, my father graduated Summa Laude from Stanford. We don't discuss Harvard in my house.
                        Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by lakechampainer View Post
                          I would dispute that. The people I know who graduated from there, including my father and a cousin, were well qualified and got in on their merits.

                          Any proof to back up your statement?
                          Anyone with the balls to apply for Harvard is going to well qualified. They probably have one of the highest if not the highest rejection rates of all US universities.

                          Harvard admission applications ask for both parents' full name and what college they attended. Applicants are interviewed by an alumni in from the local area they live in. Don't need to be a Harvard graduate to figure out the great advantage of having a relative that attended Harvard.

                          You don't think John F. Kennedy's dad didn't make a phone call or knew the alumni that interviewed JFK? Here's JFK's application:

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Salinator View Post
                            Anyone with the balls to apply for Harvard is going to well qualified. They probably have one of the highest if not the highest rejection rates of all US universities.

                            Harvard admission applications ask for both parents' full name and what college they attended. Applicants are interviewed by an alumni in from the local area they live in. Don't need to be a Harvard graduate to figure out the great advantage of having a relative that attended Harvard.

                            You don't think John F. Kennedy's dad didn't make a phone call or knew the alumni that interviewed JFK? Here's JFK's application:
                            Admissions have change a *lot* since then. Remember, most Americans didn't go to college back then, and many of those who did-such as Kennedy's successor, and his successor's successor(both of whom incidentally would *loved* to have gotten their hands on this type of thing relating to the "Harvards")-couldn't afford to go anywhere other than the nearby regional school that would take them, especially in the Depression years. Harvard basically took anyone in who could pay and was considered "respectable".

                            JFK was lucky he was second generation. His own father didn't have a chance in hell of getting into Harvard on either point in his day. And when you look at how the Kennedy family operated, that explains a lot-the old man making sure his own kids never went through that kind of thing. Doubly interesting when you realize that other prominent historical figures at the time who would interact with the clan-again, LBJ and Nixon-basically were where Papa Joe Kennedy was in terms of wealth and "respectability" with the swells rather than JFK and RFK-who reacted to their wealth in drastically different ways, BTW-with the attendant anxieties and resentment.
                            Last edited by Provokatsiya; 10 Oct 15, 19:24.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Provokatsiya View Post
                              Admissions have change a *lot* since then. Remember, most Americans didn't go to college back then, and many of those who did-such as Kennedy's successor, and his successor's successor(both of whom incidentally would *loved* to have gotten their hands on this type of thing relating to the "Harvards")-couldn't afford to go anywhere other than the nearby regional school that would take them, especially in the Depression years. Harvard basically took anyone in who could pay and was considered "respectable".

                              JFK was lucky he was second generation. His own father didn't have a chance in hell of getting into Harvard on either point in his day. And when you look at how the Kennedy family operated, that explains a lot-the old man making sure his own kids never went through that kind of thing. Doubly interesting when you realize that other prominent historical figures at the time who would interact with the clan-again, LBJ and Nixon-basically were where Papa Joe Kennedy was in terms of wealth and "respectability" with the swells rather than JFK and RFK-who reacted to their wealth in drastically different ways, BTW-with the attendant anxieties and resentment.
                              I am not quite sure what you are getting at. JFK's father did not have to struggle as came from a rich family with political power and he did get into Harvard and graduated Class of 1912.

                              I did not say that having an alumni relative is required...only that it is of great value in terms of getting in especially now with everyone trying to go to college and the school name matters more and more on resumes. It is not even just a tie-breaker...it is a massive advantage.

                              A 2011 study of 30 exclusive schools show that children of graduate alumni has a 45.1% chance of getting in. A study by Princeton showed that being a primary legacy is worth a swing of 160 points in a SAT score.

                              Look at the overall admittance rate of primary legacies vs overall admittance:

                              Harvard: legacy admissions=30% ; overall admissions=5.8%
                              Princeton: 33% ; 8.5%
                              Yale: 20-25% ; 6.7%

                              The above schools do not rate their applicants' needs status as in financial means...but they sure want to know whether the parents went to said school or not.

                              And don't forget the networking advantage of those that have relatives that attended but are not primary legacies. Ivy League schools are famous for alumni networking.
                              Last edited by Salinator; 10 Oct 15, 21:44.
                              Flag: USA / Location: West Coast

                              Prayers.

                              BoRG

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                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PtsX_Z3CMU

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