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Cast a Giant Shadow - is the Reagan legacy a hindrance or a help to the GOP today?

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  • Cast a Giant Shadow - is the Reagan legacy a hindrance or a help to the GOP today?

    Cast a Giant Shadow - is the Reagan legacy a hindrance or a help to the GOP today?

    Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah indeed!

    What now folks?

    I am, as you are all aware (I can’t image anyone not being aware) slowly developing some history tutorial topics, mostly refurbishments of ones I was involved in back in my 70’s glory days.

    Now these will be mostly military oriented but it would amuse me to explore other thematics as I did back then on the state of US politics.

    I find the current GOP predicament very interesting.
    Funny thing about legacies isn’t it?
    Whatever you thought of Reagan as a president or a man there’s no doubting the enormous status and legacy he holds with conservatives.

    However is the seemingly obsessive and frequently almost misty-eyed harking back to the ‘Golden Era’ that some party faithful indulge in really all that helpful for the modern GOP?

    I just wonder if it’s perhaps holding it back in some ways from developing further or perhaps simply adjusting to new circumstances.

    I don’t want to make this intro too long as I’ve been told on many occasions I take ages to get to my point.
    Which is…..??

    Regards lodestar

  • #2
    The Soviets didn't like Reagan. Did the Soviets pay much attention to Australias leader?

    https://books.google.com/books?id=9TWUAQ7Xof8C&q=reagan

    Comment


    • #3
      The GOP predicament today has nothing to do with Reagan and everything to do with the shift Leftward of the Democrat party.

      The GOP still operates on the belief, as in the past, that the other side is willing to compromise and act both responsibly and reasonably. The Progressive Left of the Democrat party will do no such thing.

      Instead of acting reasonably and with compromise, the Left's defining trait might be summed up as "What's ours is ours, what's yours is negotiable." You've seen it repeatedly in the last 6+ years with the Democrats and Obama. He threatens a veto on anything that isn't just the way he wants it. He does as he pleases rather than follow law in many cases. Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi are no better. With full control of both houses of Congress early in Obama's first term they shut the Republicans out entirely doing as they pleased. After losing Congress, they still have done little to compromise and instead have fought to block any legislation they don't entirely favor.

      This same pattern can be seen on those most Progressive Leftist of places in the US today: Universities. The Left shuts out opposition and debate. They don't want it. They may talk a good game but they ignore the opposition when they aren't attacking it.

      Aided by a sympatric press, their message gets a favorable viewing while the GOP message is ignored or smeared.

      This is one reason (and, no I'm not making a judgement here just an observation) that Trump's messaging goes over so well. He doesn't tip toe around the Leftist position. He hits it head on.

      That really is how you have to deal with the Left. Directly challenge their positions and show the absurd illogic and irrationality of them. So long as you just argue superficially against their positon or try compromise, you'll lose. Their often vague, generalized, and emotion based positions can be defeated but the GOP has to be willing to throw down and fight back or they'll be trampled underfoot by being too kind and too willing to act in a civilized manner against those who are often uncivilized.

      Think of this as a parent coddling a small unruly child. The child gets spoiled and does as he pleases while the parent becomes increasingly concerned and even alarmed at their inability to maintain discipline. You don't coddle the Left, you smack it down hard. Until the GOP learns that lesson, they are in for a very rough ride.

      Comment


      • #4
        No more than Obama is a mirror of any Democrats of the past.

        One thing about politics is that it changes and adapts constantly to the image of what it perceives the public wants to see, and that has changed radically since Reagan's presidency.

        However, since you brought it up, I would rather have had Reagan for these past seven years than Hussein the Incompetent.
        Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

        Comment


        • #5
          Strictly from an electoral standpoint? Yes. The mental universe of the 1980, where all that is needed are incantations to less government and a strong military, is extremely harmful for the Republican Party. It's toxic.

          It's like FDR and Democrats in the 1980s, as I've mentioned before. Ronald Reagan was a great coalition builder in his time, but times and political realities change. It's time to move on. The only way the Republicans are going to win the White House in the short term is to get the white working class to vote Republican, and they aren't going to do that when the Establishment is obsessed with tax cuts and corporate welfare while they are struggling economically. I cannot imagine that the Gipper (who let's not forget in addition to being a conservative ideological rallying point was also one of the most stunningly successful political operators in US history) would be impressed with how politically stupid the billionaire donor class is. I also don't think Reagan would be impressed by the fact that the neocons still have influence after the disasters of the Bush II administration-one forgotten thing about the 80s is how uninterested Reagan was in "regime change" most of the time.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
            The GOP still operates on the belief, as in the past, that the other side is willing to compromise and act both responsibly and reasonably. The Progressive Left of the Democrat party will do no such thing.

            Instead of acting reasonably and with compromise, the Left's defining trait might be summed up as "What's ours is ours, what's yours is negotiable."
            Yep, they are a mirror image of the Tea Party. Neither side knows what "compromise" means. They both think it means "you agree with me totally on this major issue now, and I might agree with you on some unspecified, minor issue in the future". Politicians don't know that there is a big difference between ideals and pragmatism.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by johns624 View Post
              Yep, they are a mirror image of the Tea Party. Neither side knows what "compromise" means. They both think it means "you agree with me totally on this major issue now, and I might agree with you on some unspecified, minor issue in the future". Politicians don't know that there is a big difference between ideals and pragmatism.
              Except the GOP isn't the TEA Party. Yes, TEA Party candidates run as Republicans generally to get elected but then Socialists and other hard Leftists run as Democrats for the same reason. But, the GOP is still more Centrist than Right Wing and that makes the party as a whole open to compromise. The Democrats oppose compromise as a whole as does the Right of the GOP now, like the TEA Party.

              I for one would rather have no compromise with the Left than see the Center cave into them. The Left has nothing but a solid history of train wrecks in economics, social order, government, freedom, and virtually every other positive value you want to mention. Leftists invariably end up at dictatorships, confiscation of personal wealth, political cronyism, incompetence, malfeasance, and a whole plethora of other destructive values.

              Comment


              • #8
                But right now the "far" parts of both parties is the tail wagging the dog.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by johns624 View Post
                  But right now the "far" parts of both parties is the tail wagging the dog.
                  Very true, but Reagan was a god send at the time because I remember Carter all too well!
                  Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Credo quia absurdum.


                    Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by johns624 View Post
                      But right now the "far" parts of both parties is the tail wagging the dog.
                      I'd say that is far more true of the Democrats than the Republicans. The Progressive Left is far more unified than the Center and Right will ever be. It is one of the Left's strengths that it is nearly monolithic in its views. As you head Right, you get increasingly more independent minded people with diverse views that willingly will argue with their opposition in a debate. The Left bunks none of that even as they say the opposite. If you don't agree with Leftist views and positions you will be vilified, ostracized, or otherwise shut out of the debate.

                      To see this take for example commencement speakers at those bastions of Progressive thought, universities:

                      http://www.cnsnews.com/blog/michael-...servatives-6-1

                      There appears to be a heavy liberal slant in our nation’s top 100 universities. Among the top 100 universities, liberal speakers outnumbers conservatives six-to-one; among the top 50 universities liberal speakers outnumbered conservatives nine-to-one; and among the top 10 universities there were zero conservatives and nine liberal speakers.

                      The YAF survey finds that a total of 87 liberal speakers were asked to speak at America’s top 100 universities, while only a total of 14 conservative speakers were asked to speak.

                      Of those surveyed, not a single conservative official currently serving in office was scheduled to speak in 2015. Meanwhile, Vice President Joe Biden, Virginia Governor Terry McAuliffe, Senator Michael Bennet, Congressman John Lewis, and Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti all received invitations to speak.
                      The Left is as intolerant of dissent as they come.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Time for the GOP to move on or get left behind

                        Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                        I for one would rather have no compromise with the Left than see the Center cave into them. The Left has nothing but a solid history of train wrecks in economics, social order, government, freedom, and virtually every other positive value you want to mention. Leftists invariably end up at dictatorships, confiscation of personal wealth, political cronyism, incompetence, malfeasance, and a whole plethora of other destructive values.
                        Thanks for your input so far but alas I think your uncompromisingly strident tirades against all things remotely progressive (or 'leftist' as you as pillory them) is way off topic.

                        My OP is meant as a platform to discuss the extent to which the tendency of many in the GOP to 'harken back' to or use the Reagan era paradigm as a current reference may be a hindrance to the GOP's chances of electoral success.

                        In short do they, while simply honouring Reagan and revering his achievements etc, NOT have his influence play a role in their attempts to 'sell' themselves to a very different (and still rapidly evolving) national electoral landscape?

                        Regards lodestar

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Well, I for one don't see Republicans really doing that. One neighbor is heavily Republican, meetings and all, and I don't hear that from them. While I would assume they have a very positive view of Reagan I don't see them particularly harkening back to him any more than they would to Goldwater (and I live in the state Goldwater was from).
                          I also have several friends / acquaintances who are into the TEA Party movement. Even I think they are a little crazy at times. I find myself at odds with many of their positions, particularly ones that have some religious connection like abortion.

                          Sorry if I come off overbearing in my vilifying the Left. But, I also study history and in my view there is every reason I should do so.

                          I see them as Martin Niemöller would

                          First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
                          Because I was not a Socialist.

                          Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
                          Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

                          Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
                          Because I was not a Jew.

                          Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
                          Just change who they come for and you have the Left in any country where they gained complete power.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The Republican dilema

                            [QUOTE=T. A. Gardner;3108872]
                            Well, I for one don't see Republicans really doing that. One neighbor is heavily Republican, meetings and all, and I don't hear that from them. While I would assume they have a very positive view of Reagan I don't see them particularly harkening back to him any more than they would to Goldwater (and I live in the state Goldwater was from).
                            That's your personal experience only, I afraid and I daresay similar to others.
                            However, the Republican establishment has a real problem as our colleague
                            Provokatsiya has pointed out:
                            "The only way the Republicans are going to win the White House in the short term is to get the white working class to vote Republican, and they aren't going to do that when the Establishment is obsessed with tax cuts and corporate welfare while they are struggling economically."
                            and
                            " I cannot imagine that the Gipper ... would be impressed with how politically stupid the billionaire donor class is. I also don't think Reagan would be impressed by the fact that the neocons still have influence after the disasters of the Bush II administration"
                            Sorry if I come off overbearing in my vilifying the Left. But, I also study history and in my view there is every reason I should do so.

                            I see them as Martin Niemöller would

                            Just change who they come for and you have the Left in any country where they gained complete power.
                            How pray tell, is that any different from the situation where the Right has gained complete power?
                            Do you condemn them as well?
                            Or is what they do in their own country okay by you, as long as the regime is anti-communist? (this is what this is about isn't it?)
                            The term 'Left' is pretty broad mate.
                            Some countries have long histories of left-leaning, centre-left, socially progressive parties in power on and off for extended periods without becoming Gulags for Pete's sake.

                            As for studying history I've been studying history for fifty years and used to help run tutes on the friggin' subject.
                            My mother grew up in Poland before WWII. She experienced Left and Right tyrannies in power (and I'm talking power of life and death!) and always said they were both absolutely f_ _ _king awful.

                            How do you suggest the Republicans sell themselves to the great American 'central-majority' AND remain true to what their party espouses as it's core?

                            Regards lodestar

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              You might be getting a bit confused lodestar.

                              Ronald Reagan wasn't in "Cast a Giant Shadow".

                              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cast_a_Giant_Shadow
                              "It's like shooting rats in a barrel."
                              "You'll be in a barrel if you don't watch out for the fighters!"

                              "Talking about airplanes is a very pleasant mental disease."
                              — Sergei(son of Igor) Sikorsky, 'AOPA Pilot' magazine February 2003.

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