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  • How should conservative or reactionary Catholics react to a ‘radically’ progressiv’ p

    How should conservative or reactionary Catholics react to a ‘radically’ progressive pope visiting the US?

    Better take a look at the window you guys coz if I’m not mistaken that’s the sky falling!

    I mean who does this guy think he is??

    I sure hope customs asked him the obligatory “Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?”

    I mean the head of the biggest branch of the Christian Church suggesting, as he has, that true Christians should actually care more about the plight of the ‘have-nots’ than the maintenance of the circumstances of the ‘haves’.
    I must have missed the part in the Bible where that was mentioned!

    Also suggesting that maybe, just maybe climate change is real.

    That the Church may not be the best judge of errr…… ummmm…… gayness?

    That unfettered capitalism could actually not be a universally good thing.

    That migrants including illegal ones have rights.

    And amazingly there’s that little ole Fiat he’s being driven around in……Yikes.
    Must be one of those Pinko weirdos if he's doing that.

    Got had it to the guy he’s got guts.
    Coming right into the Lion’s Den with tis visit the Land of the Free.



    Sheeesh!!

  • #2
    It's one thing to care about those with less. It's wholly another to demand that those with more give up their wealth to those with less using the force of government to accomplish that.

    In stating Capitalism might not be a good thing the Pope is hinting at the above. In fact, most of his remarks towards economics and the environment are heavily Progressive and Socialist in nature.

    I would respond to those remarks with "Show me where your ideas on economics and the environment have improved the lives of people, particularly the poor, significantly."
    It is easy to point to the failures of the Left and Socialism and even their brand of Environmentalism. On the other hand, success by the Left has been virtually nonexistent.

    Comment


    • #3
      I find it funny in light of what Jesus said about tax collectors.
      "Artillery lends dignity to what might otherwise be a vulgar brawl." - Frederick the Great

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by frisco17 View Post
        I find it funny in light of what Jesus said about tax collectors.
        Jesus didn't comment on whether taxes were "Fair and Equal" nor did he comment on how economics worked. Pope Francis, in effect, did.

        In fact, Jesus' comment was really a separation of church and state thing whereas Pope Francis was, again in effect, calling for state action to implement church beliefs.

        Comment


        • #5
          The Pope is a spiritual leader.

          As you noted, the Church might not be the best judge of "gayness" and by the same token it isn't a very good judge of climate change, economic policy or immigration.

          Unfortunately, I anticipate that we will hear lots from the MSM about the Pope's thoughts on things progressives approve of and nothing of his thoughts on things like abortion, gay weddings or contraception mandates from the government.
          Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

          Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by frisco17 View Post
            I find it funny in light of what Jesus said about tax collectors.
            I've always said that if you want a lib to find Jesus, bring up the issue of taxes and welfare. Dems will scream about separation of church and state but when it comes time to talk about taxes and welfare, halleluiah they have found the Lord! They will start quoting scripture like a preacher when that comes up.
            A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
              Jesus didn't comment on whether taxes were "Fair and Equal" nor did he comment on how economics worked. Pope Francis, in effect, did.

              In fact, Jesus' comment was really a separation of church and state thing whereas Pope Francis was, again in effect, calling for state action to implement church beliefs.
              That was kinda my point. "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's" but that doesn't mean Ceasar is right just that he is the law and should at least by respected as that. What I've taken from the bible is that it supports charity and good works as the means to help others. An important detail of that is the aim is help others to a better life and success on their own. "I help those who help themselves", " Teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime" etc. Redistribution and welfare by the government doesn't seem to fall in line with that. Tax collectors were often singled out by name as some of the biggest sinners, even though I'm sure that money was being used to bring running water, roads and other things to benefit the people of the empire. Well at least what wasnt being used to less scrupulous things anyway. Being forced to help others is not charity and you cannot make that decision for other people. The important thing about charity is that you do it of your own free will or it doesn't count.
              "Artillery lends dignity to what might otherwise be a vulgar brawl." - Frederick the Great

              Comment


              • #8
                Conservative Jews of Jesus' time expected the Christ to be an almighty warrior to destroy the Roman Empire.

                So they freed a Revolutionary instead of a holy man.

                And somehow in a non revolutionary way converted the entire Empire that initially persecuted (not criticized) Christianity.

                One wonders how often history shows who is wrong.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I find that this Pope is in line wast past Popes such as Pope Paul VI

                  Pope Francis’ overlooked sentence: An important statement on Islam and violence
                  By James Ball| 5 Comments | Print this pagePrint | Email this pageShare
                  Article Your Faith

                  It’s now been almost a year since Pope Francis issued his apostolic exhortation “The Joy of the Gospel.” Much has been written about this long document; its approach to evangelization, social justice, and a more decentralized church has been variously dissected, praised, and panned. Still, there is one blockbuster sentence that most seem to have missed: “Faced with disconcerting episodes of violent fundamentalism, our respect for true followers of Islam should lead us to avoid hateful generalizations, for authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Quran are opposed to every form of violence.”

                  Since it is tucked inside paragraph #253―one calling for religious freedom for Christians in Muslim countries―readers can be forgiven for overlooking it. But why is this line significant? And now that ISIS has advanced into Iraq, why might the sentence deserve attention?

                  While it’s noteworthy that the pope speaks favorably about Islam, it is hardly unprecedented for a pope to do so. In the mid-60s, Paul VI promulgated the Second Vatican Council’s list of tenets of Islam with which the church clearly agrees―for instance, the Creator God and final judgment―and its inclusion of Muslims in God’s plan of salvation. Benedict XVI, for all his missteps with the Islamic community, noted that Christians and Muslims should be natural allies in the push-back against atheism and the secularization of the West. And St. John Paul II, as Francis does in the first part of the sentence, rejected the popular expressions “Islamic fundamentalism” and “Islamic terrorism” in favor of the generic terms “religious fundamentalism” and “terrorism.”

                  ...
                  In the West, many Christians have learned through friendship and inter-religious dialogue that “good Muslims” are not accidents; they are not good and holy in spite of their religion and its scriptures, but in response to them. What Francis said confirms what Christians have already experienced, but such confirmation from the top is important. To my knowledge, no previous pope has made this explicit. The claim that Islam and the Quran are, at root, violent and corrupt can no longer be made with official Catholic support.

                  http://www.uscatholic.org/articles/2...violence-29502

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by lodestar View Post
                    How should conservative or reactionary Catholics react to a ‘radically’ progressive pope visiting the US?

                    Better take a look at the window you guys coz if I’m not mistaken that’s the sky falling!

                    I mean who does this guy think he is??

                    I sure hope customs asked him the obligatory “Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?”

                    I mean the head of the biggest branch of the Christian Church suggesting, as he has, that true Christians should actually care more about the plight of the ‘have-nots’ than the maintenance of the circumstances of the ‘haves’.
                    I must have missed the part in the Bible where that was mentioned!

                    Also suggesting that maybe, just maybe climate change is real.

                    That the Church may not be the best judge of errr…… ummmm…… gayness?

                    That unfettered capitalism could actually not be a universally good thing.

                    That migrants including illegal ones have rights.

                    And amazingly there’s that little ole Fiat he’s being driven around in……Yikes.
                    Must be one of those Pinko weirdos if he's doing that.

                    Got had it to the guy he’s got guts.
                    Coming right into the Lion’s Den with tis visit the Land of the Free.



                    Sheeesh!!
                    But if it weren't for the "haves", who would there be to give to the "have nots"?

                    Ironically, the Catholic Church/Vatican is one of the richest entities in the world.

                    I admire this pope for his views and actions in many areas, but his forays into politics make me uneasy.
                    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Matthew 25:31-42

                      Does it exist?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The Catholic church views itself as both a spiritual and morale institution. Not getting into politics is simply impossible, because politics envelopes nearly every aspect of human life.
                        Reaction to the 2016 Munich shootings:
                        Europe: "We are shocked and support you in these harsh times, we stand by you."
                        USA: "We will check people from Germany extra-hard and it is your own damn fault for being so stupid."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          But if it weren't for the "haves", who would there be to give to the "have nots"?

                          Ironically, the Catholic Church/Vatican is one of the richest entities in the world.

                          I admire this pope for his views and actions in many areas, but his forays into politics make me uneasy.
                          Hey, they did their part. The Vatican took in two whole refugee families...


                          http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...fugee-families

                          How Progressive of them...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Pirateship1982 View Post
                            I've always said that if you want a lib to find Jesus, bring up the issue of taxes and welfare. Dems will scream about separation of church and state but when it comes time to talk about taxes and welfare, halleluiah they have found the Lord! They will start quoting scripture like a preacher when that comes up.
                            I have noticed that as well, It's a typical trend of the left, as well as self proclaimed securalists and atheists, it's almost comical.
                            Last edited by Trung Si; 23 Sep 15, 14:00.
                            Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                              Hey, they did their part. The Vatican took in two whole refugee families...


                              http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...fugee-families

                              How Progressive of them...
                              Yeah, I'm sure that's the only charity in the world they do.

                              Comment

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