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Dirty tricks over dirty vehicles

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  • Dirty tricks over dirty vehicles

    VW in trouble in the US
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34303708
    Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
    Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

  • #2
    They'll pay a big fine which will disappear into the government's pockets and it will be business as usual.

    Funny that the EPA isn't in on this, though.
    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      They'll pay a big fine which will disappear into the government's pockets and it will be business as usual.

      Funny that the EPA isn't in on this, though.
      According to the report it's the EPA who have ordered the recall of 500,000 cars for re testing and the fine is likely to be over $11 billion - that's got to smart.

      Now what about those half a million customers? If the defeat device is switched off and their vehicles fail the re test what happens? Does VW have to reset things to get the pollution down but shove the fuel consumption right up? If I was a customer I'd feel like telling VW to shove the vehicle right up - I'd want my money back.
      Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
      Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by MarkV View Post
        According to the report it's the EPA who have ordered the recall of 500,000 cars for re testing and the fine is likely to be over $11 billion - that's got to smart.

        Now what about those half a million customers? If the defeat device is switched off and their vehicles fail the re test what happens? Does VW have to reset things to get the pollution down but shove the fuel consumption right up? If I was a customer I'd feel like telling VW to shove the vehicle right up - I'd want my money back.


        Negotiations will be as follows:

        1. VW will claim that $ 11 billion will cause them serious financial difficulty which violates the Obama "too big to fail" rule.

        2. Such "failure" will cause VW to close plants in America and eliminate thousands of American jobs.

        3. This will be laid at Obama's feet as being his fault.

        4. A deal will be reached.

        This looks far more serious that it will turn out to be.

        In Washington, District of Corruption, no one and nothing is too big to be bought.
        MMBBQQ
        Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

        Comment


        • #5
          Volkswagen cheats on pollution, they get a smack down from the EPA.

          The EPA cheats on pollution and they're sorry.

          Comment


          • #6
            Kind of an interesting dichotomy, isn't it?
            Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

            Comment


            • #7
              VW's shares have fallen 20% and were still headed downwards when the exchanges closed. The German government has taken a keen interest and begun investigating practices over here, fines and even imprisonment are beginning to be mentioned. I don't think this is going away. Part of globalisation?
              Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
              Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

              Comment


              • #8
                US EPA regs are too stringent and anyone trying to get around them have to be judged as more sane than the people that wrote them.
                Now they are trying to ban bottled water here... and that ain't the worst part.

                See #2 on this list, its true.

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-fCXYerVTY

                Don't do business in the USA if you can avoid it, not until Trump gets in.
                "Why is the Rum gone?"

                -Captain Jack

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by MarkV View Post
                  VW's shares have fallen 20% and were still headed downwards when the exchanges closed. The German government has taken a keen interest and begun investigating practices over here, fines and even imprisonment are beginning to be mentioned. I don't think this is going away. Part of globalisation?
                  I'm hearing the EPA wants as much as $18 billion in fines. Maybe they can use that money to pay for the massive pollution they've caused lately... VW's cheating is nothing compared to that mess the EPA caused. It is on par with the BP oil spill. Many EPA executives should be fired.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Just another way to remove European competition from domestic market. Wouldn't be the first time for such dirty play in North American car industry.

                    US producers are only car makers in world still making middle-class vehicles with 4l-5l gasoline (petrol) engines while countries in Europe impose substantial taxes on fuels such as gasoline, plus lack stringent pollution laws on scale seen in Europe, but then bother about 2l diesels which probably have less emissions than 80% cars made in US.* Europe is by far the biggest consumer of diesel-powered cars while as recently as 2010, Japan and the US had only a small, single-digit take-up for diesel cars. Europe is even to become the first place in the world to force "real" emissions tests on car makers, with tests to reveal what car emissions are like when driving on roads and in traffic rather than in ideal laboratory-like conditions as is currently the case.

                    *I am sure Doctor will provide us with more detailed and accurate statistical data. But you get the point.
                    It is always more difficult to fight against faith than against knowledge.

                    Косово је Србија!
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                    • #11
                      On European gas prices... That is almost entirely imposed to fund mass transit systems. That is something Obama and California here in the US would love to do but know better than to do as it would result in an open revolt by the public.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                        On European gas prices... That is almost entirely imposed to fund mass transit systems. That is something Obama and California here in the US would love to do but know better than to do as it would result in an open revolt by the public.
                        Rubbish European taxes are not hypothecated
                        Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                        Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I think you may have chosen the wrong term to describe European fuel taxes.
                          verb (used with object), hypothecated, hypothecating. 1. to pledge to a creditor as security without delivering over; mortgage.

                          2. to put in pledge by delivery, as stocks given as security for a loan.
                          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by nikolas93TS View Post
                            Just another way to remove European competition from domestic market. Wouldn't be the first time for such dirty play in North American car industry.

                            US producers are only car makers in world still making middle-class vehicles with 4l-5l gasoline (petrol) engines while countries in Europe impose substantial taxes on fuels such as gasoline, plus lack stringent pollution laws on scale seen in Europe, but then bother about 2l diesels which probably have less emissions than 80% cars made in US.* Europe is by far the biggest consumer of diesel-powered cars while as recently as 2010, Japan and the US had only a small, single-digit take-up for diesel cars. Europe is even to become the first place in the world to force "real" emissions tests on car makers, with tests to reveal what car emissions are like when driving on roads and in traffic rather than in ideal laboratory-like conditions as is currently the case.

                            *I am sure Doctor will provide us with more detailed and accurate statistical data. But you get the point.
                            No idea what you're talking about, but the original article was about how VW was putting a device into their cars to make them appear to pass emissions standards. The standards are what they are and they are not different for a car just because it's European...US and Japanese cars must pass the same standards but apparently are able to do so without the addition of a device such as the one mentioned. What the European version of the EPA is doing is not relevant to the story, nor is it relevant how many diesel cars are being used in each country. It's also not 'dirty play' by the US auto industry it was done by VW, a European company. They are the company that tried to cheat the system.
                            You mentioned the 'laboratory' testing that you indicate the US uses and Europe no longer does, but in reality cars on the road in the US are tested in real world conditions: they pull into a service station and a probe is placed in the exhaust which measures emissions. Sometimes cars fail the emissions tests and need to be serviced or have parts replaced to get them to pass. They may use a laboratory to develop the engine and test it before it hits the market but cars are tested yearly or semi-yearly depending on the state they're registered in, and they are tested using the probe method not a laboratory.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              Negotiations will be as follows:

                              1. VW will claim that $ 11 billion will cause them serious financial difficulty which violates the Obama "too big to fail" rule.

                              2. Such "failure" will cause VW to close plants in America and eliminate thousands of American jobs.

                              3. This will be laid at Obama's feet as being his fault.

                              4. A deal will be reached.

                              This looks far more serious that it will turn out to be.

                              In Washington, District of Corruption, no one and nothing is too big to be bought.
                              MMBBQQ
                              Does VW make any cars in the US? I thought most of their cars were made in Mexico or in Europe.

                              Comment

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