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  • On Refugees...

    Obama has just proposed a hike in the number of refugees the US would take from various $h!+ holes around the planet.

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/oba...zB&ocid=SMSDHP

    Europe is being deluged with Syrian and Middle Eastern refugees at the moment.

    To be completely rational here, what reason does any nation have that requires them to take refugees from some failed state or one at war as essentially immigrants? It's all fine and dandy if some state or another wants to take them or has room to do so, but I can't see were there is some moral imperative or duty involved.

    In fact, I'd say in most cases there is every reason to turn refugees from a war, civil war, or failed state away, in essence telling them "Go home!"

    The reason I'd give for that is the mess where they came from is in part their own doing. It isn't as if they're fleeing a maniacal dictator (eg., N. Korea) or some sort of genocide (The Holocaust for example). They are fleeing internal conflict (civil war), a war between their nation and another, or simply the failure of their homeland to become stable and productive (Somalia).
    By making them stay, they are forced to confront these issues and hopefully do something about them rather than run away to some other nation that is currently stable and productive where they potentially might destabilize it. I'd also bet that the ones fleeing are the more educated, more capable than the poor or ruling class. That means these nations are being drained of the very people they need the most to fix things.

    So, again the question: What reason does America, Europe, or elsewhere have to take all these refugees just because they are claiming refugee status?

  • #2
    I don't want Canada to take them in considering how a percentage of them will be radicals wanting to go to war against Canada and our Allies.
    Let the Arab countries take them in.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by VinceW View Post
      I don't want Canada to take them in considering how a percentage of them will be radicals wanting to go to war against Canada and our Allies.
      Let the Arab countries take them in.
      Agreed. No country should allow them in. It's naive and stupid. And dangerous. These European countries that are allowing this are going to lose their national identities in a flood of foreign refugees that the state will completely pay for at the cost of the nationals therein. And, as was pointed out, this is a golden opportunity for islamist terrorists/jihadis to gain free access to their target countries.

      Idiocy. Sheer idiocy.
      The First Amendment applies to SMS, Emails, Blogs, online news, the Fourth applies to your cell phone, computer, and your car, but the Second only applies to muskets?

      Comment


      • #4
        Let the Christians come in. Send the Muslims packing to the hell holes they have created. It should be easy enough to tell the difference.
        http://beforeitsnews.com/eu/2015/08/...e-2588644.html
        “Breaking News,”

        “Something irrelevant in your life just happened and now we are going to blow it all out of proportion for days to keep you distracted from what's really going on.”

        Comment


        • #5
          Here are the rules from the 1951 Refugee Convention

          "The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of article 1, enter or are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence."

          "No Contracting State shall expel or return ('refouler') a refugee in any manner whatsoever to the frontiers of territories where his life or freedom would be threatened on account of his race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social or political opinion"

          The U.S. is only party to the protocol.


          When you starting talking about morality the philosophical issues become so deep that you need a textbook size post to cover them. I have neither the technical background nor the inclination to attempt such a monumental task of uncovering the morality of illegal immigration.

          Let's just use a simple analogy. If you next door neighbor is beating his wife to death and she has other angry lovers who may be armed and dangerous. If she escapes her husband and runs to you door do you let her in. If you let her in and your wife objects do you them have to put her out to save your marriage. If you let her in and her husband comes after her do you shoot him to protect her and your own family? What if the other lovers show up at his house do you prevent them from killing each other? Perhaps you just call the police and barricade yourself in your house and let her die. I have actually been in this situation twice and I did protect the woman even though I knew they were slutts, bad mothers and unpleasant for me to be around.

          Trying to make personal morality applicable to international politics however is tricky. It is almost impossible to predict the consequences of any action you may take or not take. If the rules that apply to personal behavior applied to wider social conflicts no one could justify participating in a war. Justifiable Wars are generally fought on the grounds of the ends justify the means something most moral philosophers reject. The analogy that is often used is can you justify pushing one fat person to certain death to stop a trolley car from killing ten people? Can you refugee an immigrant safety to save a nation? I honestly don't know but I have already decided to take the position that illegal is illegal and the law should be enforced. If the laws is immoral then change the law.

          What I really dislike about the current crisis is that you could see it coming four years ago and Europe still was non interventionist. The least they could have done is secured an area for refugees. The U.S. simply could not intervene because of a history of aggression in Iraq, our relationship with Israel, and Syria being a Russian client of sorts.
          Last edited by wolfhnd; 09 Sep 15, 23:53.
          We hunt the hunters

          Comment


          • #6
            So far, this entire thread, says everything about Conservatives that ever needs saying.
            Conservatives in the U.S. won't be happy until Jim Crow returns and "White Heterosexual Only" signs are legalized.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by SRV Ron View Post
              Let the Christians come in. Send the Muslims packing to the hell holes they have created. It should be easy enough to tell the difference.
              http://beforeitsnews.com/eu/2015/08/...e-2588644.html
              http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Before_It%27s_News

              Could you for once ,give us a link credible?
              I mean ,a link where guys don't claim they have filmed a Pterosaur in Idaho ?
              http://beforeitsnews.com/paranormal/...o-2495928.html
              That rug really tied the room together

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Anthrax View Post
                So far, this entire thread, says everything about Conservatives that ever needs saying.
                Come on you have to say more than that.
                We hunt the hunters

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Anthrax View Post
                  So far, this entire thread, says everything about Conservatives that ever needs saying.
                  What? That they're taking a rational / logical position on the subject while the Progressives / Leftists are taking an irrational one based on emotion and feelings?

                  Is that what you're hinting at?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Anthrax View Post
                    So far, this entire thread, says everything about Conservatives that ever needs saying.
                    Yeah, it says we understand America is not one giant battered women's shelter forced to take in every refugee from every third-world hell hole and provide them with the means to live all at tax-payer expense. It says we understand that for every poor little Muslim who puts his kid in a small boat and pushes them out to sea because he wants to get his teeth fixed for free in Europe there is an Islamic militant desperate to commit jihad trying to get in right behind him. It means we understand the United States is a sovereign nation and we are not required to commit national suicide simply to make liberals feel good about themselves.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'm ok with allowing Christian refugees, they're much more likely to integrate and less likely to bite the hand that feeds them.

                      As for the muslims, wealthy Arab states should take the sunnis, Iran the shiites. Doesn't the koran dictate muslims help other muslims?
                      ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

                      BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

                      BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by sebfrench76 View Post
                        http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Before_It%27s_News

                        Could you for once ,give us a link credible?
                        I mean ,a link where guys don't claim they have filmed a Pterosaur in Idaho ?
                        http://beforeitsnews.com/paranormal/...o-2495928.html
                        In their own words; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeMIX90-594

                        Remain in denial that this evil scum is sneaking across the border with the refugees until it is too late. Or, have you forgot history before yesterday that peace deal Chamberlain made with Hitler in the 30s?

                        As far as the pterosaur, it could have been the one my avatar was flying on last night.
                        “Breaking News,”

                        “Something irrelevant in your life just happened and now we are going to blow it all out of proportion for days to keep you distracted from what's really going on.”

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by SRV Ron View Post
                          Let the Christians come in. Send the Muslims packing to the hell holes they have created. It should be easy enough to tell the difference.
                          http://beforeitsnews.com/eu/2015/08/...e-2588644.html
                          Originally posted by SRV Ron View Post
                          In their own words; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeMIX90-594

                          Remain in denial that this evil scum is sneaking across the border with the refugees until it is too late. Or, have you forgot history before yesterday that peace deal Chamberlain made with Hitler in the 30s?

                          As far as the pterosaur, it could have been the one my avatar was flying on last night.
                          A few moments searching shows that the people who actually shot the video as well as the Red Cross themselves have said that it had nothing to do with religion.

                          http://www.ilpost.it/2015/08/25/debu...oss-macedonia/


                          The level of bile and misinformation being spread in this is getting sickening. Next time try posting facts rather than propaganda and trying to spread hatred . That same search also showed the kind of sites that you must have gotten the 'information' from. Sums you up really.
                          "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it"
                          G.B Shaw

                          "They promised us homes fit for heroes, they give us heroes fit for homes."
                          Grandad, Only Fools and Horses

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Gixxer86g View Post
                            I'm ok with allowing Christian refugees, they're much more likely to integrate and less likely to bite the hand that feeds them.

                            As for the muslims, wealthy Arab states should take the sunnis, Iran the shiites. Doesn't the koran dictate muslims help other muslims?
                            This all Abrahamic mess started when Christians entered Europe, if we must draw lines, draw them short,

                            I say kill them all.

                            All children of the same Hebrew "one god" after all.
                            Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

                            Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              If they can make it here in a raft, let em in....

                              Comment

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