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Video appears to show Texas deputies shot man with hands up

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  • Video appears to show Texas deputies shot man with hands up

    SAN ANTONIO (AP) Video obtained by a San Antonio TV station appears to show a man with his hands up fatally shot by deputies, an encounter that authorities say happened after the armed man resisted arrest and nonlethal weapons failed to bring him under control.

    Gilbert Flores, 41, died shortly after the shooting Friday, the Bexar County Sheriff's Office said in a statement Monday.

    Deputies Greg Vasquez and Robert Sanchez were responding to a domestic disturbance and found a woman with a cut on her head and a baby who appeared injured, according to the statement.

    The deputies encountered Flores, who was armed, and attempted to arrest him, the sheriff's department said. The statement didn't say what type of weapon Flores had.

    After Flores resisted, the deputies used nonlethal weapons in an attempt to detain him, but when "those efforts failed," they shot him, according to the statement.

    The video, taken by a bystander and obtained by KSAT-TV, appears to show Flores standing still with his arms raised just before two shots are heard. Flores drops to the ground. The video doesn't include audio of deputies' commands or Flores' response, and the scene is partially obscured by police vehicles and passing cars.
    AP - Full Article

    Here's a link to the original video.

  • #2
    From the OP:

    "The deputies encountered Flores, who was armed, and attempted to arrest him, the sheriff's department said. The statement didn't say what type of weapon Flores had."

    At the 56 second mark he had his hands up, at the 58 second mark he lowers his hands and is shot.
    "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

    Comment


    • #3
      Well now we don't have to worry about supporting him in jail and then letting him back on the streets. My bet is they were ordering to get down on his knees and he refused to do so.

      Pruitt
      Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

      Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

      by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Nichols View Post
        From the OP:

        "The deputies encountered Flores, who was armed, and attempted to arrest him, the sheriff's department said. The statement didn't say what type of weapon Flores had."

        At the 56 second mark he had his hands up, at the 58 second mark he lowers his hands and is shot.
        58 second mark....hands drop rapidly and it appears that he's making a move to lunge forward.

        Looks like a good shoot from the video if he was armed.
        Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post
          58 second mark....hands drop rapidly and it appears that he's making a move to lunge forward.

          Looks like a good shoot from the video if he was armed.
          You do know that sound moves slower than light?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Paddybhoy View Post
            You do know that sound moves slower than light?
            I presume you're saying that his hands dropped because he was being shot?

            Of course this is all speculation based on one cell-phone video taken by one person with an agenda (if he had no agenda why would he have stopped and started recording) at a range of a little over 100yds I'd guess. So I'll wait for more evidence to come out.

            That being said, light travels at 186,000 miles per second in a vacuum. A tad slower in atmosphere, but we can assume that it's close enough to be instantaneous. The speed of sound at sea level is 761 miles per hour. That calculates out to 372 yards per second. If the camera was at a range of around 100yds, which is my reasonable estimate, then the difference between sight and sound is less than 1/3 of a second. Close enough to be instantaneous. Long story short, his hands were already dropping, because we could see them dropping, along with his arms, and his torso into a lunging/charging position.....BEFORE shots were fired.

            As for the justification, it depends on if the subject was armed or not. Based on the response, he's armed, and my guess would be with either a blunt object but most likely a knife (because it's not big enough to clearly see in the video whereas an axe or something of that size would be). The longstanding distance at which a knife-wielding attacker can close and engage someone armed with a gun before that person can be shot is 21 feet.....the RCMP holds 35 feet and having done some training with this scenario I agree with the Canadians on this. So reasonably, anyone armed with a knife and making an aggressive move within 10-12 yards of you is a deadly threat and there is no question of justification for you shooting them.

            Unfortunately, the longest-reaching taser cartridge is 35ft....exactly that distance. And that's a special cartridge that IIRC taser has stopped producing because of issues. The standard issue cartridge length is 21 or 25ft.....which is inside the effective range of a knife wielding attacker. That totally takes the less lethal option out of the picture for the average patrol officer who's got to work with only what's on their belt. From the video, it appears that one officer was attempting to circle in behind the subject to tase him, which is pretty standard practice, while the other was providing lethal cover. The subject was facing the lethal cover officer and appears to make as if to charge.....and is then shot.
            Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post
              I presume you're saying that his hands dropped because he was being shot?

              Of course this is all speculation based on one cell-phone video taken by one person with an agenda (if he had no agenda why would he have stopped and started recording) at a range of a little over 100yds I'd guess. So I'll wait for more evidence to come out.

              That being said, light travels at 186,000 miles per second in a vacuum. A tad slower in atmosphere, but we can assume that it's close enough to be instantaneous. The speed of sound at sea level is 761 miles per hour. That calculates out to 372 yards per second. If the camera was at a range of around 100yds, which is my reasonable estimate, then the difference between sight and sound is less than 1/3 of a second. Close enough to be instantaneous. Long story short, his hands were already dropping, because we could see them dropping, along with his arms, and his torso into a lunging/charging position.....BEFORE shots were fired.

              As for the justification, it depends on if the subject was armed or not. Based on the response, he's armed, and my guess would be with either a blunt object but most likely a knife (because it's not big enough to clearly see in the video whereas an axe or something of that size would be). The longstanding distance at which a knife-wielding attacker can close and engage someone armed with a gun before that person can be shot is 21 feet.....the RCMP holds 35 feet and having done some training with this scenario I agree with the Canadians on this. So reasonably, anyone armed with a knife and making an aggressive move within 10-12 yards of you is a deadly threat and there is no question of justification for you shooting them.

              Unfortunately, the longest-reaching taser cartridge is 35ft....exactly that distance. And that's a special cartridge that IIRC taser has stopped producing because of issues. The standard issue cartridge length is 21 or 25ft.....which is inside the effective range of a knife wielding attacker. That totally takes the less lethal option out of the picture for the average patrol officer who's got to work with only what's on their belt. From the video, it appears that one officer was attempting to circle in behind the subject to tase him, which is pretty standard practice, while the other was providing lethal cover. The subject was facing the lethal cover officer and appears to make as if to charge.....and is then shot.
              Since he could cover that 10ish yards in less time than you can react...couldn't you also argue that, even if he was unarmed, he was still a threat to the extent that deadly force was usable? If you're the officer, with a drawn pistol, that he could've gotten to before you can react, if he lunges at you, you have no choice at that point but to either fire or possibly have your pistol taken from you and used on you.

              Comment


              • #8
                Looks like a good shoot.

                Rule #1: ALWAYS COOPERATE WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS.

                Rule#2: If you feel you are being wrongfully detained, SEE RULE # 1.

                Period.

                Not having been the officer facing the suspect, we are in no position to judge his actions. For future information, however, it has been proven conclusively that a man with just a knife can attack and kill a man with a weapon at distances of up to 31 feet before the man with the gun can react in time to defend himself.
                Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Paddybhoy View Post
                  You do know that sound moves slower than light?
                  What's your point? If it's that close...if the speed of light vs. the speed of sound is the margin for error maybe it's unreasonable to expect the cops to take a few seconds to think about it before they react.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Steve573 View Post
                    What's your point? If it's that close...if the speed of light vs. the speed of sound is the margin for error maybe it's unreasonable to expect the cops to take a few seconds to think about it before they react.

                    It's nothing to do with reactions, Tac is trying to say that the guy lowers his hands and makes a forward movement before the shots are fired.

                    To me it looks like the guy lowered his hands and slumps because of the shots fired (but I'm not 100% sure)

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