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The Donald’s Net Favourability Rating Among Hispanics: -51%

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
    But if the blame is solely on the Dems and the news media, then it implies the GOP is impotent or that there isn't anything on their platform to criticize or change.

    The liberal bias in the media is well known but has become an excuse for Republican failure. When the GOP gets into the blame game they continue the myth that they're not responsible for their own image.

    I hate to say it, but the reason I'm putting the onus on the Republucans is that many ideas I have are unacceptable to the GOP old guard. The GOP has a culture that doesn't tolerate concessions and cultivates an arrogant view on non-Republicans. I'm not saying that the GOP is alone there - anyone who has seen the Dems talking about how the GOP is nothing but corporate cronies and evangelical bigots knows the left is just as guilty there - but that the GOP isnt willing to face the half-truths about race in all the bullshit.

    And that's simply that the GOP is the party of and for white people.

    The election results time and again demonstrate this clearly. And if the GOP will continue to look at blacks, Hispanics, etc. as supporting the Dems because they're lazy or looking for handouts, it only reinforces just why the GOP remains a white man's world.

    If the GOP wants the black, Hispanic, Asian, etc. vote then they have to treat them like they would any other group, learn what that community wants, and try to deliver it to them. If they can't - or won't - then they're resigning themselves to future defeat.

    The good news is that the GOP, if it can find the courage, can reverse this trend easily if it focuses on what its goals are.

    What's more important, traditional political purity, or winning votes?
    I have repeatedly said that if I wanted to get a non-white person to vote Dem I would simply invite them to a conservative dominated forum to let them see how GOP supporters talk about them when they talk amongst themselves. Continually telling tens of millions of non-white voters that they are basically too lazy or stupid to know what is best for them is an incredibly self-defeating strategy.

    It also forms part of this myth of Conservative victimhood that, like all victimhood myths, shifts all the responsibility for any failings to external forces. It is an irony that the same people who are so dismissive of that attitude when people who face genuine & structural discrimination express it are so quick to adopt it to avoid facing the failings of their side of politics.

    In the late 60s the Democratic Party found itself torn between a number of constituencies that were simply impossible to fully reconcile. it failed to manage that problem & found itself effectively locked out of the White house for 2 decades (thank Nixon for Carter). The GOP finds itself in similar territory. It has won the popular vote at only 1 Presidential election since 1988. While that doesn't mean it can't win the Presidency, it makes it a lot harder.

    As with the Dems, the process of party transformation is going to be extremely difficult. At the moment too many GOP supporters are blaming reality for not conforming with what they want it to be.
    Human beings are the only creatures on Earth that claim a god and the only living thing that behaves like it hasn't got one - Hunter S. Thompson

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by BF69 View Post
      I have repeatedly said that if I wanted to get a non-white person to vote Dem I would simply invite them to a conservative dominated forum to let them see how GOP supporters talk about them when they talk amongst themselves. Continually telling tens of millions of non-white voters that they are basically too lazy or stupid to know what is best for them is an incredibly self-defeating strategy.
      Most conservatives are not racist in the sense of the world so often abused by liberals, who have almost single handedly turned that phrase into an empty attack word.

      However, I don't think even the conservatives themselves understand that having so many of them believe that blacks, Hispanics, etc. are lazy (even though they say to themselves its not about race) is a reflection of their own views on the wider group and this carries through in their message and public persona.

      But again, because of the way the liberals will use even a whiff of anything related to prejudice to launch into a tirade about racism and hatred from conservatives, it's no wonder that there is a hesitancy to examine those views amongst conservatives.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
        Most conservatives are not racist in the sense of the world so often abused by liberals, who have almost single handedly turned that phrase into an empty attack word.

        However, I don't think even the conservatives themselves understand that having so many of them believe that blacks, Hispanics, etc. are lazy (even though they say to themselves its not about race) is a reflection of their own views on the wider group and this carries through in their message and public persona.
        Hits the nail squarely on the head. The way many conservatives talk about non-white groups involves a lot of heavily loaded terms & underlying assumptions. People have become extraordinarily good at convincing themselves that if they don't think they are racist then nothing they say or think can be prejudiced. Thus my point about the term 'culture' taking the place that 'race' once did as a blanket way to talk about non-whites. You can take many statements that use the word 'culture', substitute 'race' and it reads like something from the Klan.

        I think to a large extent white conservatives don't know how to talk to or about minorities without sounding prejudiced.

        But again, because of the way the liberals will use even a whiff of anything related to prejudice to launch into a tirade about racism and hatred from conservatives, it's no wonder that there is a hesitancy to examine those views amongst conservatives.
        Sure, but that cuts both ways. Conservatives need no more excuse to hurl equally nasty insults the other way. In fact, increasingly conservatives are as quick to accuse people of 'racism'. None of that absolves Liberals of the responsibility to examine their own views. Chomskybots don't get to use the Tea Party as an excuse for their stupidity & vice versa.

        That lack of willingness to self-examine on race represents a serious problem even beyond politics. By instantly switching to 'victim mode' people have, as I said, convinced themselves that nothing they say can ever be racist. The ease with which people explain away things that they would decry as 'fascism' if it were targetted at them simply because the targets/victims are non-whites simply feeds those perceptions about racism.
        Human beings are the only creatures on Earth that claim a god and the only living thing that behaves like it hasn't got one - Hunter S. Thompson

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Jonathanrex1 View Post
          • Atheists and Agnostics
          (Social Conservatives can never stop taking about God)

          This is a case of the Atheists and Agnostics picking and choosing. Democrats talk about God all the time. Hell, the majority of the hard-core Black leadership are 'reverend'. Republicans need to stay away from railing against Agnostics. But the Democrats have done a good job of talking from both sides of their mouths there.....claiming religion when it's convenient, and claiming to be on the side of Atheists when it's convenient.

          • Feminists
          (Republicans love to attack Planned Parenthood)

          Eh, the Feminists are more than PP. They're never going to go Republican because they're always going to be 'progressive'. They're some of the original progressives in fact. Women either grow out of this.....or don't. It's not necessarily a bad thing....but it definitely can be.

          • Civil Rights Activists and SJWs
          (Republicans are largely against groups like BLM)

          In an ironic twist, some Civil Rights Activists would really like the Republican stance on civil rights. Well, the libertarian branch.

          • Union Members
          (Right-to-Work laws anyone?)

          Eh....if a union is frightened that their reason for existence is threatened without a closed shop, its their problem. I don't believe in terminating unions. But on the other hand, I don't believe in any laws that force an individual to join a private organization in order to have a job. If a company wishes to only hire union labor, that's the company. If the state forces an individual to join a union to work in a field......that's wrong (like back when you had to join the union to be a teacher anywhere in Wisconsin).

          • Pot Smokers
          (The War on Drugs anyone?)

          Democrats have pushed that war just as hard as Republicans.


          • College Educated Urban Residents
          (Republicans never make fun of 'elites' or the 'left coast')

          • Whites whose social circles includes Hispanics
          (Donald Trump)

          • LGBT People
          (Does this need explaining?)

          • Pacifists and Isolationists
          (Let's bomb Syria, Iran and ISIS!)

          • Occupy Wallstreet and Bernie Sander Supporters
          (Commie Scum!!!)

          Ann Coulter is so blinded by race that she somehow thinks these people will be more likely to vote for Republicans than some Hispanic Catholic, Pro-Life, small-buisness owner. Simply because they are white.
          From the looks of it, the only party that could join most of those groups would be Libertarians.

          For what it's worth, I disagree with Coulter. Hispanics are practically what the Republicans should be considering the core demographic. Hard working, productive, working class folks. My Hispanic trailer parks are the very definition of quiet and crime free compared the the balance of my section.

          The way the the Republicans need to address the Hispanics one sticking point, immigration, is to strengthen border controls and tighten down on the companies that exploit illegals. But at the same time actually do real immigration reform to make it less of a paperwork nightmare....especially for immigrants that have positive job prospects. Make it so someone who's working class can actually complete the process, and set up a way for criminal aliens to turn themselves in, be deported, but be allowed to come back with proper documentation this time. Not amnesty. But the equivalent of a judge that gives probation for those that may deserve a second chance.
          Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
            But if the blame is solely on the Dems and the news media, then it implies the GOP is impotent or that there isn't anything on their platform to criticize or change.
            You misunderstand. The Dems aren't solely responsible. The GOP needs to learn how to play the game and they need to do it for this election, or they are done for good.

            They need to accept what they can't change and work on what they can.

            If the GOP wants the black, Hispanic, Asian, etc. vote then they have to treat them like they would any other group, learn what that community wants, and try to deliver it to them. If they can't - or won't - then they're resigning themselves to future defeat.
            Agreed.

            The good news is that the GOP, if it can find the courage, can reverse this trend easily if it focuses on what its goals are.
            At this point, I don't know how easily it can win back those votes.
            ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

            BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

            BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Gixxer86g View Post
              They need to accept what they can't change and work on what they can.
              Well said

              There are certain realities that I think we need to accept ... sadly I don't think a good portion of the GOP base will accept those realities. Right now the GOP is more or less dominated by the Deep South and Midwest where large portions of registered Republicans are more or less stuck in the 1960s in terms of race, religion, culture, etc. This is why there is so much focus on social conservatism and issues like gay marriage which most of the nation has already come to accept as a reality that is here to stay regardless of what the "Bible thumpers" want.

              I think we are reaching the point where it may be too late the save the GOP

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by BF69 View Post
                How about you dig up the full post & its context before you start using half remembered statements to dismiss observations on US politics that offer considerably more insight than anything you have offered.

                I'm not claiming to be an 'honest broker', I'm claiming to know more about this than you & to be less obsessed with a pet issue - an impossibly low standard given your posting history. Have a look at some of the other posts here. Even people who are right of centre get that the GOP has a serious problem here & that they are alienating potential voters. They just disagree on who is to blame.

                I've been closely studying/following US history & politics since I was in high school over 3 decades ago. I don't just get all hot 'n heavy every time some US politician spouts a few populist one liners that tickle my prejudices because I actually have enough background on all of this to put it in context. How you doin?



                What utter bullshit. Desperate ex post facto distraction from a monumentally stupid claim about the end of 'western culture' that you've stopped trying to defend. What goes on South of the border is as much a 'Western culture' as anything that happens north of it. As I pointed out on another thread, conservatives have taken to substituting 'culture' for 'race' or 'ethnicity' in an attempt to convince people (& perhaps themselves) that this isn't just about what it is clearly all about.

                As for the 'polling data', lets look at that after the Presidential election. I will bet you cash money that GOP voters are clearly more white, male & older than the Dems. That is the only poll that matters here, not the equivalent of a bit of psephological masturbation more than 12 months out from the election. So, want to put your money where your mouth is, or is your 'polling data' not quite as sound as you might think?
                Did you enjoy your little rant?

                To return you to the pertinent point, are you denying that Hispanic culture places a relatively low value on women in society? Are you denying that Hispanic immigrants bring with them an uprated risk of violence, especially against women?

                For all the horror at Trump's political incorrectness, this would seem an important question and one you ducked in your haste to clear up what an informed expert you were.
                Ne Obliviscaris, Sans Peur

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Escape2Victory View Post
                  Did you enjoy your little rant?

                  To return you to the pertinent point, are you denying that Hispanic culture places a relatively low value on women in society? Are you denying that Hispanic immigrants bring with them an uprated risk of violence, especially against women?

                  For all the horror at Trump's political incorrectness, this would seem an important question and one you ducked in your haste to clear up what an informed expert you were.
                  This is really more relevant to BF69s post but I started off agreeing with you and went on a rant! It's dismaying to me that someone from Melbourne who probably has little real first-hand knowledge of the illegal immigration situation can have such strong opinions about those who do have that first-hand knowledge. As I said in my last post I grew up within a few miles of the border...lived there for 30+ years and in my post I didn't mention violence or rape but the simple facts that people have been streaming across the border for decades and taking advantage of our loose rules about who qualifies for taxpayer-financed welfare, education and health care. Those are not generalizations about any particular race...it's a catch-22 that if you say there's an illegal immigration problem, and it also happens to be true that the overwhelming majority of illegal immigrants are Hispanic, you must be saying something against Hispanics. That's not the case, at least for me. I personally think the strength of the US, the thing that separates us from a lot of more established countries, is that we're comfortable with the idea that immigrants will come here and bring their own culture to integrate into our society. American culture is really just a mixture of all the cultures that have migrated here over the last couple of centuries...we take if for granted that this is true and the majority of Americans are happy with that. Illegal immigration is a problem, not because of who' illegally immigrating but because to not acknowledge that it's a problem is the same as saying the US has no right to have a border, no right to have any say in who comes into the country by immigrating legally, and no right to determine where we spend public funds. I lived close enough to the border that half the people I knew personally were Mexican Americans or Mexican nationals, and we went to each other's weddings, kids birthday parties, etc all the time...we went across the border to shop and the citizens of Tijuana did the same. In that part of the country there are two large cities that straddle the border and the cross-pollination of culture is natural and normal to everyday life, and we all have first hand knowledge of the problems that come with illegal immigration. Maybe our information isn't as good as you get in Melbourne, but judging by our info we know these problems exist.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Steve573 View Post
                    I personally think the strength of the US, the thing that separates us from a lot of more established countries, is that we're comfortable with the idea that immigrants will come here and bring their own culture to integrate into our society. American culture is really just a mixture of all the cultures that have migrated here over the last couple of centuries ...we take if for granted that this is true and the majority of Americans are happy with that.
                    Your absolutely 100% correct but the Trump supporters disagree, they and The Donald have made it quite clear that in their view American = White Anglo ... and that is what will sink the Republicans yet again.


                    Facts are facts, the only reason Trump isent polling alongside Pataki and Santorum right now is because his comments about Mexicans struck home with the knuckle dragging bigots that make up an oversized portion of the GOP base in the Deep South and the Midwest.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by ChrisF1987 View Post
                      Your absolutely 100% correct but the Trump supporters disagree, they and The Donald have made it quite clear that in their view American = White Anglo ... and that is what will sink the Republicans yet again.


                      Facts are facts, the only reason Trump isent polling alongside Pataki and Santorum right now is because his comments about Mexicans struck home with the knuckle dragging bigots that make up an oversized portion of the GOP base in the Deep South and the Midwest.
                      Maybe so, and if the GOP loses this time around they have no one to blame but themselves for not having a candidate worth voting for. I think Trump is trying to grab headlines and appeal to a certain portion of the demographic but maybe the silver lining might be that the issue becomes a legitimate one for other candidates to talk about without being accused of racism. It's difficult to solve a problem if you can't even talk about it.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Steve573 View Post
                        It's difficult to solve a problem if you can't even talk about it.
                        Amen!
                        And if you do you are a Bigot and a Racist, end of story.
                        Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Escape2Victory View Post
                          Did you enjoy your little rant?

                          To return you to the pertinent point, are you denying that Hispanic culture places a relatively low value on women in society? Are you denying that Hispanic immigrants bring with them an uprated risk of violence, especially against women?

                          For all the horror at Trump's political incorrectness, this would seem an important question and one you ducked in your haste to clear up what an informed expert you were.
                          I don't think you understand. He's got a couple of friends here. And he saw some slums when driving from the airport. And most importantly, he's read a few things. If that doesn't make one an expert, then I don't know what does.
                          ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

                          BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

                          BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Gixxer86g View Post
                            You misunderstand. The Dems aren't solely responsible. The GOP needs to learn how to play the game and they need to do it for this election, or they are done for good.

                            They need to accept what they can't change and work on what they can.
                            I agree there, with the caveat that sometimes the GOP supporters place a bit of conspiracy into their arguments - over stating the anti-Republican bias in the news media for instance - as an excuse from examining their own faults.

                            That's not to say that problem doesn't exist, only that when it is addressed one must be realistic. After all, the most watched cable news source in America is Fox News - the idea that the pro-GOP message is impossible to get out due to a cabal of liberal news personalities (which is a line I've heard here, more than once) is a bit self defeating.

                            At this point, I don't know how easily it can win back those votes.
                            They can't in just one election. Consider Hispanic voters: the GOP has for a generation basically written them off, with only George Bush polling good numbers from Hispanics before illegal immigration became a pillar of the GOP platform.

                            To win they back they need to work on a long, determined plan to earn those votes. Step one is to stop believing that every poor, urban voter who collects Wellfare is a lazy parasite.

                            The GOPs biggest problems are in perception: how they are viewed from the outside, and how they view others. Both have to change, at a deep and sincere level.

                            As long as GOP supporters continue to cast aspersions on those minority groups (like questioning how many Hispanic voters are there legally whenever that issue is raised) it will reflect their own suspicions and negative views on the wider community.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by ChrisF1987 View Post
                              Call me a RINO, I don't care ... the fact is no Republican will ever sit behind the Resolute desk again unless he or she can win a minimum of 40% of the Hispanic vote. The only other alternative is to somehow win over 70% of the White vote ... a statistical impossibility. We (the GOP) have basically maxed out the White vote for all it's worth.

                              Mitt Romney won an even greater share of the White vote than Ronald Reagan did in 1980 ... and Romney was still creamed. What does that tell you?
                              Not all Hispanics are Mexican.
                              My worst jump story:
                              My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                              As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                              No lie.

                              ~
                              "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                              -2 Commando Jumpmaster

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Trung Si View Post
                                Amen!
                                And if you do you are a Bigot and a Racist, end of story.
                                It might be uncomfortable for some but issues of race abound in politics. Blacks vote overwhelming for Dems, yet this does not seem to attract the same level of hysterical wailing about racism. Hispanics consistently vote Dem but with less passion than Blacks.

                                Trump's play is to go for the broader white vote and address their concerns. He hopes to take white voters off the Dems and leave them as the party of the ethnic minority, champion of the illegal immigrant. I have no idea if it will work, I just think there is a chance this election might not follow the old rules about needing X% of the Hispanic vote to win.
                                Ne Obliviscaris, Sans Peur

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