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The Donald’s Net Favourability Rating Among Hispanics: -51%

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  • Gixxer86g
    replied
    Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
    But if the blame is solely on the Dems and the news media, then it implies the GOP is impotent or that there isn't anything on their platform to criticize or change.
    You misunderstand. The Dems aren't solely responsible. The GOP needs to learn how to play the game and they need to do it for this election, or they are done for good.

    They need to accept what they can't change and work on what they can.

    If the GOP wants the black, Hispanic, Asian, etc. vote then they have to treat them like they would any other group, learn what that community wants, and try to deliver it to them. If they can't - or won't - then they're resigning themselves to future defeat.
    Agreed.

    The good news is that the GOP, if it can find the courage, can reverse this trend easily if it focuses on what its goals are.
    At this point, I don't know how easily it can win back those votes.

    Leave a comment:


  • TacCovert4
    replied
    Originally posted by Jonathanrex1 View Post
    • Atheists and Agnostics
    (Social Conservatives can never stop taking about God)

    This is a case of the Atheists and Agnostics picking and choosing. Democrats talk about God all the time. Hell, the majority of the hard-core Black leadership are 'reverend'. Republicans need to stay away from railing against Agnostics. But the Democrats have done a good job of talking from both sides of their mouths there.....claiming religion when it's convenient, and claiming to be on the side of Atheists when it's convenient.

    • Feminists
    (Republicans love to attack Planned Parenthood)

    Eh, the Feminists are more than PP. They're never going to go Republican because they're always going to be 'progressive'. They're some of the original progressives in fact. Women either grow out of this.....or don't. It's not necessarily a bad thing....but it definitely can be.

    • Civil Rights Activists and SJWs
    (Republicans are largely against groups like BLM)

    In an ironic twist, some Civil Rights Activists would really like the Republican stance on civil rights. Well, the libertarian branch.

    • Union Members
    (Right-to-Work laws anyone?)

    Eh....if a union is frightened that their reason for existence is threatened without a closed shop, its their problem. I don't believe in terminating unions. But on the other hand, I don't believe in any laws that force an individual to join a private organization in order to have a job. If a company wishes to only hire union labor, that's the company. If the state forces an individual to join a union to work in a field......that's wrong (like back when you had to join the union to be a teacher anywhere in Wisconsin).

    • Pot Smokers
    (The War on Drugs anyone?)

    Democrats have pushed that war just as hard as Republicans.


    • College Educated Urban Residents
    (Republicans never make fun of 'elites' or the 'left coast')

    • Whites whose social circles includes Hispanics
    (Donald Trump)

    • LGBT People
    (Does this need explaining?)

    • Pacifists and Isolationists
    (Let's bomb Syria, Iran and ISIS!)

    • Occupy Wallstreet and Bernie Sander Supporters
    (Commie Scum!!!)

    Ann Coulter is so blinded by race that she somehow thinks these people will be more likely to vote for Republicans than some Hispanic Catholic, Pro-Life, small-buisness owner. Simply because they are white.
    From the looks of it, the only party that could join most of those groups would be Libertarians.

    For what it's worth, I disagree with Coulter. Hispanics are practically what the Republicans should be considering the core demographic. Hard working, productive, working class folks. My Hispanic trailer parks are the very definition of quiet and crime free compared the the balance of my section.

    The way the the Republicans need to address the Hispanics one sticking point, immigration, is to strengthen border controls and tighten down on the companies that exploit illegals. But at the same time actually do real immigration reform to make it less of a paperwork nightmare....especially for immigrants that have positive job prospects. Make it so someone who's working class can actually complete the process, and set up a way for criminal aliens to turn themselves in, be deported, but be allowed to come back with proper documentation this time. Not amnesty. But the equivalent of a judge that gives probation for those that may deserve a second chance.

    Leave a comment:


  • BF69
    replied
    Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
    Most conservatives are not racist in the sense of the world so often abused by liberals, who have almost single handedly turned that phrase into an empty attack word.

    However, I don't think even the conservatives themselves understand that having so many of them believe that blacks, Hispanics, etc. are lazy (even though they say to themselves its not about race) is a reflection of their own views on the wider group and this carries through in their message and public persona.
    Hits the nail squarely on the head. The way many conservatives talk about non-white groups involves a lot of heavily loaded terms & underlying assumptions. People have become extraordinarily good at convincing themselves that if they don't think they are racist then nothing they say or think can be prejudiced. Thus my point about the term 'culture' taking the place that 'race' once did as a blanket way to talk about non-whites. You can take many statements that use the word 'culture', substitute 'race' and it reads like something from the Klan.

    I think to a large extent white conservatives don't know how to talk to or about minorities without sounding prejudiced.

    But again, because of the way the liberals will use even a whiff of anything related to prejudice to launch into a tirade about racism and hatred from conservatives, it's no wonder that there is a hesitancy to examine those views amongst conservatives.
    Sure, but that cuts both ways. Conservatives need no more excuse to hurl equally nasty insults the other way. In fact, increasingly conservatives are as quick to accuse people of 'racism'. None of that absolves Liberals of the responsibility to examine their own views. Chomskybots don't get to use the Tea Party as an excuse for their stupidity & vice versa.

    That lack of willingness to self-examine on race represents a serious problem even beyond politics. By instantly switching to 'victim mode' people have, as I said, convinced themselves that nothing they say can ever be racist. The ease with which people explain away things that they would decry as 'fascism' if it were targetted at them simply because the targets/victims are non-whites simply feeds those perceptions about racism.

    Leave a comment:


  • Daemon of Decay
    replied
    Originally posted by BF69 View Post
    I have repeatedly said that if I wanted to get a non-white person to vote Dem I would simply invite them to a conservative dominated forum to let them see how GOP supporters talk about them when they talk amongst themselves. Continually telling tens of millions of non-white voters that they are basically too lazy or stupid to know what is best for them is an incredibly self-defeating strategy.
    Most conservatives are not racist in the sense of the world so often abused by liberals, who have almost single handedly turned that phrase into an empty attack word.

    However, I don't think even the conservatives themselves understand that having so many of them believe that blacks, Hispanics, etc. are lazy (even though they say to themselves its not about race) is a reflection of their own views on the wider group and this carries through in their message and public persona.

    But again, because of the way the liberals will use even a whiff of anything related to prejudice to launch into a tirade about racism and hatred from conservatives, it's no wonder that there is a hesitancy to examine those views amongst conservatives.

    Leave a comment:


  • BF69
    replied
    Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
    But if the blame is solely on the Dems and the news media, then it implies the GOP is impotent or that there isn't anything on their platform to criticize or change.

    The liberal bias in the media is well known but has become an excuse for Republican failure. When the GOP gets into the blame game they continue the myth that they're not responsible for their own image.

    I hate to say it, but the reason I'm putting the onus on the Republucans is that many ideas I have are unacceptable to the GOP old guard. The GOP has a culture that doesn't tolerate concessions and cultivates an arrogant view on non-Republicans. I'm not saying that the GOP is alone there - anyone who has seen the Dems talking about how the GOP is nothing but corporate cronies and evangelical bigots knows the left is just as guilty there - but that the GOP isnt willing to face the half-truths about race in all the bullshit.

    And that's simply that the GOP is the party of and for white people.

    The election results time and again demonstrate this clearly. And if the GOP will continue to look at blacks, Hispanics, etc. as supporting the Dems because they're lazy or looking for handouts, it only reinforces just why the GOP remains a white man's world.

    If the GOP wants the black, Hispanic, Asian, etc. vote then they have to treat them like they would any other group, learn what that community wants, and try to deliver it to them. If they can't - or won't - then they're resigning themselves to future defeat.

    The good news is that the GOP, if it can find the courage, can reverse this trend easily if it focuses on what its goals are.

    What's more important, traditional political purity, or winning votes?
    I have repeatedly said that if I wanted to get a non-white person to vote Dem I would simply invite them to a conservative dominated forum to let them see how GOP supporters talk about them when they talk amongst themselves. Continually telling tens of millions of non-white voters that they are basically too lazy or stupid to know what is best for them is an incredibly self-defeating strategy.

    It also forms part of this myth of Conservative victimhood that, like all victimhood myths, shifts all the responsibility for any failings to external forces. It is an irony that the same people who are so dismissive of that attitude when people who face genuine & structural discrimination express it are so quick to adopt it to avoid facing the failings of their side of politics.

    In the late 60s the Democratic Party found itself torn between a number of constituencies that were simply impossible to fully reconcile. it failed to manage that problem & found itself effectively locked out of the White house for 2 decades (thank Nixon for Carter). The GOP finds itself in similar territory. It has won the popular vote at only 1 Presidential election since 1988. While that doesn't mean it can't win the Presidency, it makes it a lot harder.

    As with the Dems, the process of party transformation is going to be extremely difficult. At the moment too many GOP supporters are blaming reality for not conforming with what they want it to be.

    Leave a comment:


  • BF69
    replied
    Originally posted by Escape2Victory View Post
    Remind me again how you described your sentiments on mass migration to the west - "it makes me grin from ear to ear" I believe. You will forgive me if I don't take your attempts to play honest broker, rational voice of reason, too seriously.
    How about you dig up the full post & its context before you start using half remembered statements to dismiss observations on US politics that offer considerably more insight than anything you have offered.

    I'm not claiming to be an 'honest broker', I'm claiming to know more about this than you & to be less obsessed with a pet issue - an impossibly low standard given your posting history. Have a look at some of the other posts here. Even people who are right of centre get that the GOP has a serious problem here & that they are alienating potential voters. They just disagree on who is to blame.

    I've been closely studying/following US history & politics since I was in high school over 3 decades ago. I don't just get all hot 'n heavy every time some US politician spouts a few populist one liners that tickle my prejudices because I actually have enough background on all of this to put it in context. How you doin?

    The charge against Hispanic immigration is that it brings a high risk of violence, especially sexual violence against women because that culture places a low value on women in society. From what I have seen of the data, the charge stands and that will be a concern to more than 'angry old white men', as you are now learning from poll data.
    What utter bullshit. Desperate ex post facto distraction from a monumentally stupid claim about the end of 'western culture' that you've stopped trying to defend. What goes on South of the border is as much a 'Western culture' as anything that happens north of it. As I pointed out on another thread, conservatives have taken to substituting 'culture' for 'race' or 'ethnicity' in an attempt to convince people (& perhaps themselves) that this isn't just about what it is clearly all about.

    As for the 'polling data', lets look at that after the Presidential election. I will bet you cash money that GOP voters are clearly more white, male & older than the Dems. That is the only poll that matters here, not the equivalent of a bit of psephological masturbation more than 12 months out from the election. So, want to put your money where your mouth is, or is your 'polling data' not quite as sound as you might think?
    Last edited by BF69; 27 Aug 15, 20:06.

    Leave a comment:


  • Daemon of Decay
    replied
    Originally posted by Gixxer86g View Post
    You are correct about perception. However, the GOP is correct in their accusations towards the media and the Dems.

    What the GOP doesn't get, is that they need to learn how to beat the Dems at their own game.

    And that's to beat them in the left leaning media. I don't know how that can be accomplished.

    Any ideas?
    But if the blame is solely on the Dems and the news media, then it implies the GOP is impotent or that there isn't anything on their platform to criticize or change.

    The liberal bias in the media is well known but has become an excuse for Republican failure. When the GOP gets into the blame game they continue the myth that they're not responsible for their own image.

    I hate to say it, but the reason I'm putting the onus on the Republucans is that many ideas I have are unacceptable to the GOP old guard. The GOP has a culture that doesn't tolerate concessions and cultivates an arrogant view on non-Republicans. I'm not saying that the GOP is alone there - anyone who has seen the Dems talking about how the GOP is nothing but corporate cronies and evangelical bigots knows the left is just as guilty there - but that the GOP isnt willing to face the half-truths about race in all the bullshit.

    And that's simply that the GOP is the party of and for white people.

    The election results time and again demonstrate this clearly. And if the GOP will continue to look at blacks, Hispanics, etc. as supporting the Dems because they're lazy or looking for handouts, it only reinforces just why the GOP remains a white man's world.

    If the GOP wants the black, Hispanic, Asian, etc. vote then they have to treat them like they would any other group, learn what that community wants, and try to deliver it to them. If they can't - or won't - then they're resigning themselves to future defeat.

    The good news is that the GOP, if it can find the courage, can reverse this trend easily if it focuses on what its goals are.

    What's more important, traditional political purity, or winning votes?

    Leave a comment:


  • ChrisF1987
    replied
    Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
    Part of that is perception, though, and a reflection of what I was discussing earlier.

    On the one hand you have conservatives reiterating time and again that they're not racist, that they have no issue with Hispanics, it's simply about stopping a major national issue involving millions of criminals coming across the border, which is costing us billions and putting the lives of citizens at risk.

    It's a sane, rational, and hardly bigoted view.

    But if that were true, then why are Hispanics overwhelmingly voting Democrat?

    Indeed, if the GOP isn't as white-centric as its opponents claim, why is it that the only major racial/ethnic group they pull a majority of support from are whites?

    When you ask Republicans this question, their response is generally a mixture of blaming the news media and the Democrats - which is, as I mentioned earlier, part of the problem itself. If the GOP can't see how or why its policies might not be viewed so favorably with different racial and ethnic groups to such a large degree, perhaps they need to do a little soul searching and not just repeat the same arguments again and again.

    But I suspect that instead, they'll be more likely to blame the groups themselves and bring up race baiting, ethnic loyalties, Democratic bribery, and the rest. A bunch of lazy, uneducated minorities are bribed with handouts and bused to polling booths to vote how they're told; the news media demonizes the Republicans and paints every conservative as a Klan member; we've seen these claims many times on this forum alone.

    If the GOP wants to continue to be relevant in the years to come, then it has to actually understand why it is viewed the way it is - and it has to do what it can to reverse that trend. As long as they dig in their heels and believe that they're not at fault in any way, you'll continue to see the fastest growing voting blocks in the US support the Democrats.

    If politics is simply a battle of images, the GOP has already lost amongst non-whites. It will have to work hard to win them over - and at stake is the nation's government.
    Can you PLEASE run for RNC national chairman? We badly need people with common sense like you

    Leave a comment:


  • Gixxer86g
    replied
    Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
    But if that were true, then why are Hispanics overwhelmingly voting Democrat?

    Indeed, if the GOP isn't as white-centric as its opponents claim, why is it that the only major racial/ethnic group they pull a majority of support from are whites?

    When you ask Republicans this question, their response is generally a mixture of blaming the news media and the Democrats - which is, as I mentioned earlier, part of the problem itself. If the GOP can't see how or why its policies might not be viewed so favorably with different racial and ethnic groups to such a large degree, perhaps they need to do a little soul searching and not just repeat the same arguments again and again.
    You are correct about perception. However, the GOP is correct in their accusations towards the media and the Dems.

    What the GOP doesn't get, is that they need to learn how to beat the Dems at their own game.

    And that's to beat them in the left leaning media. I don't know how that can be accomplished.

    Any ideas?

    Leave a comment:


  • Daemon of Decay
    replied
    Originally posted by Gixxer86g View Post
    It's not just the usual liberal suspects, it seems that this is lost on many outside this country.
    Part of that is perception, though, and a reflection of what I was discussing earlier.

    On the one hand you have conservatives reiterating time and again that they're not racist, that they have no issue with Hispanics, it's simply about stopping a major national issue involving millions of criminals coming across the border, which is costing us billions and putting the lives of citizens at risk.

    It's a sane, rational, and hardly bigoted view.

    But if that were true, then why are Hispanics overwhelmingly voting Democrat?

    Indeed, if the GOP isn't as white-centric as its opponents claim, why is it that the only major racial/ethnic group they pull a majority of support from are whites?

    When you ask Republicans this question, their response is generally a mixture of blaming the news media and the Democrats - which is, as I mentioned earlier, part of the problem itself. If the GOP can't see how or why its policies might not be viewed so favorably with different racial and ethnic groups to such a large degree, perhaps they need to do a little soul searching and not just repeat the same arguments again and again.

    But I suspect that instead, they'll be more likely to blame the groups themselves and bring up race baiting, ethnic loyalties, Democratic bribery, and the rest. A bunch of lazy, uneducated minorities are bribed with handouts and bused to polling booths to vote how they're told; the news media demonizes the Republicans and paints every conservative as a Klan member; we've seen these claims many times on this forum alone.

    If the GOP wants to continue to be relevant in the years to come, then it has to actually understand why it is viewed the way it is - and it has to do what it can to reverse that trend. As long as they dig in their heels and believe that they're not at fault in any way, you'll continue to see the fastest growing voting blocks in the US support the Democrats.

    If politics is simply a battle of images, the GOP has already lost amongst non-whites. It will have to work hard to win them over - and at stake is the nation's government.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gixxer86g
    replied
    Originally posted by Steve573 View Post
    First of all, no one has any problem with immigration. There is no anti-immigration movement that I'm aware of...it's anti-illegal immigration, which is a completely different topic and is something liberals seem to be unable to understand.

    It's not just the usual liberal suspects, it seems that this is lost on many outside this country.

    But you don't have to be American to understand the GOP is alienating a large conservative voting block.
    Last edited by Gixxer86g; 27 Aug 15, 18:04.

    Leave a comment:


  • Steve573
    replied
    Originally posted by BF69 View Post
    Dear me! quite the dramatic, aren't we? Last time I checked Hispanics speak 'Western' languages & follow 'Western' religions. Like most people obsessed with odd notions about 'Western' culture & non-whites, you are completely missing the point. The reason Hispanic voters have a problem with the GOP isn't because they want to flood America with other Hispanics. The reason they have a problem with the GOP is because they want to be accepted as Americans and behind the anti-immigration rhetoric they see more sinister attitudes to non-whites. Advocates of laws that essentially treat all Hispanics as presumed criminals until proven otherwise (and there are plenty of them) tell Hispanic Americans that they aren't viewed as 'real' Americans. People like Trump & his supporters confirm this. You only have to see people on this forum rushing to defend his statements about 'thieves & murderers' to see the problem.....well, some of us can see it.

    Here is the really stupid thing & the thing you clearly don't understand - it has been widely recognized for decades that Hispanics should be a natural GOP constituency. They are more religious than the mainstream & are much more socially conservative than the mainstream. On both counts they are an odd fit for the Democrats. After all, appealing to 'cultural conservatives' was one of the winning strategies of Ronald Reagan. There are other ways in which they better fit the Dems, but as a whole they should be 'up for grabs'. Even more so as they move more into the middle class. They fit 'Western culture' pretty damned well, as it happens. Yet the GOP is so busy pitching to angry & prejudiced white folks it is missing the opportunity to grab a growing demographic.

    Conservative parties in Australia screwed up similarly with Vietnamese migrants in the 1970s & 80s and lost a generation who should have been natural conservative voters. Pandering to narrow nativist views is stupid politics, but conservatives seem unable to help themselves.
    First of all, no one has any problem with immigration. There is no anti-immigration movement that I'm aware of...it's anti-illegal immigration, which is a completely different topic and is something liberals seem to be unable to understand. I've never once heard anyone mention they were against immigration, just that the uncontrolled illegal immigration is a problem in the US, as it is an escalating problem in Europe. The illegal immigrants can't legally vote so no one's pandering to that particular group. They don't really desire to be Americans as you mentioned, they desire to come to American, work and earn money, and send that money to their families in Mexico for the most part. They aren't interested in being Americans...they are proud to be Mexican but they can't make a living as easily there. They do, without doubt, put a strain on social welfare programs, they use up taxpayer money that should rightfully be used for US citizens, they show up at US schools and drop their kids off every day...I know because I grew up about 7 miles from San Ysidro border crossing and we dealt with these issues our entire lives. If you're talking about the Mexican-American vote, that's different and they do tend to vote on the democratic side because so many of them have family members that are illegals and so many of those depend on the social welfare programs. Imagine if, in Australia, if you had a border you shared with another country, every hospital in your border cities had pregnant women showing up every day who are in labor and, since it's a medical emergency can't be turned away. They have their babies for free, paid for courtesy of your taxpayers. Just as galling is the fact that Mexico doesn't allow illegal immigration: their military is stationed along their southern border to keep people from El Salvador and Honduras out. It's a serious problem that isn't racist or hateful but is practical and is more about the right of a country to have a secure border. I think as citizens we have a legitimate right to be concerned about this, without being accused of being racist.

    Leave a comment:


  • Escape2Victory
    replied
    Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
    I believe the importance of that is that it reflects the GOP's self defeating strategy regarding minorities. Texas is arguably the most red state, with a rapidly growing Hispanic population. What happens if the GOP continue to alienate Hispanics and end up losing Texas in ten years?

    I think the problem is one of perception. One would expect conservative, Catholic Mexicans and Central Americans to side with the GOP - but instead they've voted overwhelmingly for the Dems.

    The GOP seems to just shrug this off and declare it to just be because the Dems buy votes and lie and cheat, or point fingers at the media, or one of a dozen different excuses. What they really need is some introspection, to really think about why their message doesn't sell with any majority except for whites, and to seek solutions to those problems.

    Those outside factors do play a part, but the majority of the blame lies with themselves and their inability - or unwillingness - to do anything about it.

    That trump doesn't care about Hispanics might not matter for obtaining the nomination, but it becomes a factor for the election itself - and for future elections as well.
    I'm not sure if your points above are long term trends. In the UK we find African and Asian migrants and their descendants vote overwhelmingly for Labour, the left of centre party. This group is the left's most devout support, stronger than any socio-economic group support.

    It may be you have a similar pattern with Hispanic and Blacks tending to vote Dem and always do, regardless of policy shifts?

    If we are being ruthless about such things, there is therefore a strong motivation for GOP to deport such staunch opposition voters, within boundaries acceptable to the wider voter base (i.e. those in the US illegally).

    I return to my earlier point - if the Hispanic vote is already large enough to be the deciding one in any election, that places them in the position to ensure things are ordered to their wishes and that is something to ponder.

    Leave a comment:


  • Daemon of Decay
    replied
    Originally posted by Escape2Victory View Post
    These images prove my point - shouldn't they all be hard bit old crusties with zimmer frames? Pale, male and stale? That is not what we see.

    Trump is not playing for the Hispanic vote, why would you expect to see them at his rallies? I certainly don't.
    I believe the importance of that is that it reflects the GOP's self defeating strategy regarding minorities. Texas is arguably the most red state, with a rapidly growing Hispanic population. What happens if the GOP continue to alienate Hispanics and end up losing Texas in ten years?

    I think the problem is one of perception. One would expect conservative, Catholic Mexicans and Central Americans to side with the GOP - but instead they've voted overwhelmingly for the Dems.

    The GOP seems to just shrug this off and declare it to just be because the Dems buy votes and lie and cheat, or point fingers at the media, or one of a dozen different excuses. What they really need is some introspection, to really think about why their message doesn't sell with any majority except for whites, and to seek solutions to those problems.

    Those outside factors do play a part, but the majority of the blame lies with themselves and their inability - or unwillingness - to do anything about it.

    That trump doesn't care about Hispanics might not matter for obtaining the nomination, but it becomes a factor for the election itself - and for future elections as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • Escape2Victory
    replied
    Originally posted by Jonathanrex1 View Post
    I beg to differ.

    The Donald's most recent and largest rally in Alabama – where 31.5% of the population is Non-White – looked like Scandinavia.









    Okay, the last one was just for fun, but you get my point.
    These images prove my point - shouldn't they all be hard bit old crusties with zimmer frames? Pale, male and stale? That is not what we see.

    Trump is not playing for the Hispanic vote, why would you expect to see them at his rallies? I certainly don't.

    Leave a comment:

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