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Obama to hit US power plants with tougher than expected emissions cuts

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  • T. A. Gardner
    replied
    Originally posted by jeffdoorgunnr View Post
    Perhaps in the long run this may be a good thing...........might get a lot of people "off grid" If I remember correctly You can buy the best natural gas Generator around and have it installed for around $7000. If utility rates spike much more.. that is very cost efficient.
    The cost per KW hour has to rise above about $.25 right now to make this option viable. In the US the cost per KWh right now is about $.12. Obama's plan will raise this to somewhere around $.17 to $.22 so it puts it in the ball park to switch to a private generator system.

    I based my costs on a 10 KW generator and a 5 to 7 KW load with peaks up to about 9 KW occasionally. The 10 KW units I casually looked at cost $6,000 to $8,000. Additional materials would run about $1000.
    I can install everything but the gas hook ups myself (I'd prefer someone certified hook the gas up. I can bury a continuous line myself). The electric is nothing to do for me.

    Leave a comment:


  • jeffdoorgunnr
    replied
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    I was just pointing out that Obama's plan makes options he'd hate more desirable than his stupid plan is. Yes, natural gas or propane is a better alternative to diesel, and if you went in with a few neighbors you could have 2 or 3 generators, shared, for reliability. That too is cheaper than wind or solar.

    Seems to me that the sort of economics presented makes Obama and the econutters of the Left's push to solar and wind look idiotically stupid. It is as if they were incapable of doing simple economics and math.
    Perhaps in the long run this may be a good thing...........might get a lot of people "off grid" If I remember correctly You can buy the best natural gas Generator around and have it installed for around $7000. If utility rates spike much more.. that is very cost efficient.

    Leave a comment:


  • G David Bock
    replied
    ^ Link to above cited article for those whom want the full dose of propaganda;
    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/e...er-plan-myths/

    Dis-information alert!

    In most articles relating to 'coal-fueled power plants' an image/photo is often shown of a USA plant with "smoke" coming out of the chimney(s). That is not "smoke" but rather steam and CO2 (yes, CO2 is an invisible gas). The EPA mandates of nearly three decades ago were for major coal-fueled power-plants to eliminate SO2, sulfur dioxide, source of "acid rain" from the flue result of burning coal. By now, every large powerplant has installed the scrubbers needed to do this. These scrubbers most often use a chemical reaction of calcium carbonate to bond and remove the sulfur. The process also tends to remove heavy metals and other REAL pollutants. The by-product of this chemical reaction is an increase in CO2 and water vapor(steam), which is what one sees coming out of those stacks.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Doctor
    replied
    Pure idiocy from National Geographic...

    Five Myths About New U.S. Climate Plan...

    [...]

    By Wendy Koch, National Geographic
    PUBLISHED AUGUST 02, 2015

    [...]

    Myth #1: It limits emissions from individual power plants.
    Not directly...

    [...]

    Myth #2: It sets higher targets for coal states and will hike power prices.
    Not necessarily...

    [...]

    Myth #3: It faces an insurmountable legal challenge.
    Perhaps not...

    [...]

    Myth #4: It’s not essential for meeting U.S. climate pledge.
    Probably is...

    [...]

    Myth #5: It won’t make any difference in climate change.
    Not necessarily...

    [...]

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/e...er-plan-myths/

    In this particular usage, "myth" is defined as...
    3. any invented story, idea, or concept:
    4. an imaginary or fictitious thing or person.
    5. an unproved or false collective belief that is used to justify a social institution.

    Every one of her myths is highly equivocal (not necessarily, perhaps not, etc.). In each case the burden of proof is actually on supporters of this EPAbomination to demonstrate that the benefits are real and the costs are mythical.
    Last edited by The Doctor; 04 Aug 15, 16:29.

    Leave a comment:


  • G David Bock
    replied
    ^ "Simple math and economics" don't apply if idiotology gets in the way.

    Leave a comment:


  • T. A. Gardner
    replied
    Originally posted by jeffdoorgunnr View Post
    on a related slant..............how about those natural gas generators............are they feasible for long term alternative power generation for a house? Sounds a lot better than a diesel generator.
    I was just pointing out that Obama's plan makes options he'd hate more desirable than his stupid plan is. Yes, natural gas or propane is a better alternative to diesel, and if you went in with a few neighbors you could have 2 or 3 generators, shared, for reliability. That too is cheaper than wind or solar.

    Seems to me that the sort of economics presented makes Obama and the econutters of the Left's push to solar and wind look idiotically stupid. It is as if they were incapable of doing simple economics and math.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cambronnne
    replied
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    He's right, they will skyrocket. In the US consumers pay about $.12 a KW hour. In the world's leading solar / wind nations (Germany and Denmark) that cost is $.30 to .40 a KW hour.

    Note, that with the cost of #2 diesel is at about $2.75 a gallon a 10 KW diesel generator that can supply the full load of a house running at about half a gallon of fuel an hour the cost of a KW hour is about $.20 to $.25. And the initial cost of said generator and installation is less than $7,000 (no labor cost in my case, I can do it myself and if you have it done about $10,000) making it cheaper than installing solar. And, unlike solar it can supply power 24/7.

    As one quick example:

    http://www.hardydiesel.com/diesel-ge...generator.html

    Basically, Obama's plan is a total fail. If he drives the cost of electricity up to the costs the Germans, Japanese, or Danes have it is better to go off grid with a carbon emitting home power plant than it is to buy "green" energy from some government controlled major supplier.

    Those that get royally screwed by Obama's plan, thankfully, are those with the least choice: The poor and the urban dwelling Progressives. They can't afford alternatives or have no means to use them. They get shafted by Obama's carbon plan, but then they voted that idiot into office.
    People living in suburbs and rural areas can simply go around his folly and go "off grid" for cheaper than his idiot plan will ever deliver.

    Going "off the grid" will eventually become illegal.
    That which is not mandatory will be illegal.

    Or as T.H. WHite originally said it:
    "EVERYTHING NOT FORBIDDEN IS COMPULSORY” .

    I believe the quote is in reference to totalitarianism, so I think it is relevant to the discussion.

    Leave a comment:


  • G David Bock
    replied
    All This for .01 Degrees Celsius?

    As the president reveals his plan to reduce greenhouse gases to save us from an apocalyptic atmosphere, I wish to remind people of three things:
    (includes)
    ...

    http://patriotpost.us/opinion/36771

    Leave a comment:


  • Trung Si
    replied
    formulations

    Originally posted by jeffdoorgunnr View Post
    on a related slant..............how about those natural gas generators............are they feasible for long term alternative power generation for a house? Sounds a lot better than a diesel generator.
    Propane is the way to go, even though it is not as efficient as gas or diesel and natural gas is not available everywhere (it's not available where I live), that way one doesn't have to worry about gasoline going bad when it is not being used for a long time and they are constantly changing the formulations of gas and diesel and I would worry if my generator will run on it five years from now.
    Last edited by Trung Si; 04 Aug 15, 14:41.

    Leave a comment:


  • jeffdoorgunnr
    replied
    Originally posted by Steve573 View Post
    Just curious about this: does the diesel generator run at 1/2 gallon per hour on average? What I mean is 1/2 gallon 24 hours a day? That doesn't seem economical for a house: 1/2 gallon * 24 hours = 12 gallons per day, times $2.75 equals $990 per month for fuel. Or is that max 1/2 gallon per hour and at times of lower usage it uses little or no fuel?
    on a related slant..............how about those natural gas generators............are they feasible for long term alternative power generation for a house? Sounds a lot better than a diesel generator.

    Leave a comment:


  • Steve573
    replied
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

    Note, that with the cost of #2 diesel is at about $2.75 a gallon a 10 KW diesel generator that can supply the full load of a house running at about half a gallon of fuel an hour the cost of a KW hour is about $.20 to $.25. And the initial cost of said generator and installation is less than $7,000 (no labor cost in my case, I can do it myself and if you have it done about $10,000) making it cheaper than installing solar. And, unlike solar it can supply power 24/7.
    Just curious about this: does the diesel generator run at 1/2 gallon per hour on average? What I mean is 1/2 gallon 24 hours a day? That doesn't seem economical for a house: 1/2 gallon * 24 hours = 12 gallons per day, times $2.75 equals $990 per month for fuel. Or is that max 1/2 gallon per hour and at times of lower usage it uses little or no fuel?

    Leave a comment:


  • T. A. Gardner
    replied
    Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
    Dear Leader Chairman Maobama is hellbent to deliver on this campaign promise...

    He's right, they will skyrocket. In the US consumers pay about $.12 a KW hour. In the world's leading solar / wind nations (Germany and Denmark) that cost is $.30 to .40 a KW hour.

    Note, that with the cost of #2 diesel is at about $2.75 a gallon a 10 KW diesel generator that can supply the full load of a house running at about half a gallon of fuel an hour the cost of a KW hour is about $.20 to $.25. And the initial cost of said generator and installation is less than $7,000 (no labor cost in my case, I can do it myself and if you have it done about $10,000) making it cheaper than installing solar. And, unlike solar it can supply power 24/7.

    As one quick example:

    http://www.hardydiesel.com/diesel-ge...generator.html

    Basically, Obama's plan is a total fail. If he drives the cost of electricity up to the costs the Germans, Japanese, or Danes have it is better to go off grid with a carbon emitting home power plant than it is to buy "green" energy from some government controlled major supplier.

    Those that get royally screwed by Obama's plan, thankfully, are those with the least choice: The poor and the urban dwelling Progressives. They can't afford alternatives or have no means to use them. They get shafted by Obama's carbon plan, but then they voted that idiot into office.
    People living in suburbs and rural areas can simply go around his folly and go "off grid" for cheaper than his idiot plan will ever deliver.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Doctor
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    A threat is not a promise. Bo Bo made a lot of promises, none of which he made good on, while atthe same time he has almost destroyed America. You can worship your hero if you like, but don;t expect enthusiasm from the rest of us.
    Bo promised to destroy America...

    Leave a comment:


  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Originally posted by SRV Ron View Post
    Rep John Boehner and Senator Mitch McConnell are not only doing the bidding of the Democrats, they are attacking those conservatives that were elected in 2014 to try and put a stop to this madness.

    Once implemented, we will be facing energy rationing as the rest of the manufacturing jobs, including those that locally produce all of the semiconductor grade silicon used in solar panels and electronics in the US, to China, a country where there is zero concern over the environment and the dirtiest of coal, with no emissions controls at all, is used to produce the energy needed.
    Follow the money...

    Leave a comment:


  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Originally posted by Savez View Post
    BS ? We have Obamacare and the war on coal. Obama has made good on his threats. The Republicans have done nothing since November but pander to the Democrats who are fulfilling their campaign promises.
    A threat is not a promise. Bo Bo made a lot of promises, none of which he made good on, while atthe same time he has almost destroyed America. You can worship your hero if you like, but don;t expect enthusiasm from the rest of us.

    Leave a comment:

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