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U.S. Offers to Help Israel Bolster Defenses

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  • wolfhnd
    replied
    Originally posted by Handsome Jack View Post
    If I were a Muslim and grew up next to a people that form the basis of Western religion and historically slaughtered Gentiles, heathens, and taught that they were the rulers of the earth and destined to dominate everyone and everything on this planet by being Yahweh's chosen people, I'd be pretty mad at them. Not fanatically, but I'd still not want them near me.
    The vast majority of Jews no more believe they are the chosen people of god than the majority of Christians are hoping the apocalypse is just around the corner. Zionism itself is more secular than religious at it's roots but few ethnic groups can deny the influence of religion on their cultural heritage.

    Israel exists because of anti Jewish sentiment in Europe and the Middle East and it is that same anti Jewish sentiment that makes it difficult to condemn Israel's policies. The first step in influencing Israel's policies should be to eliminate anti Jewish ethnic bias.

    Leave a comment:


  • Handsome Jack
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Up until the genocidal fanaticism of Islam.

    Personally, if I were Israel and had suffered what they have at the hands of fanatical Islamic terrorists, I wouldn't allow a single Muslim anywhere inside the borders, so I would say they are very tolerant under the circumstances.
    If I were a Muslim and grew up next to a people that form the basis of Western religion and historically slaughtered Gentiles, heathens, and taught that they were the rulers of the earth and destined to dominate everyone and everything on this planet by being Yahweh's chosen people, I'd be pretty mad at them. Not fanatically, but I'd still not want them near me.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Originally posted by Handsome Jack View Post
    I've heard typically that society still frowns on them considerably. Ironic considering Hebrewism/Judaism and Islam are almost identical religions in numerous ways.
    Up until the genocidal fanaticism of Islam.

    Personally, if I were Israel and had suffered what they have at the hands of fanatical Islamic terrorists, I wouldn't allow a single Muslim anywhere inside the borders, so I would say they are very tolerant under the circumstances.

    Leave a comment:


  • Handsome Jack
    replied
    Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
    Depends on where in Israel you go. Palestinian camps truly are horrible, but not every Arab or Muslim living in Israel is placed in camps behind walls.
    I've heard typically that society still frowns on them considerably. Ironic considering Hebrewism/Judaism and Islam are almost identical religions in numerous ways.

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  • Daemon of Decay
    replied
    Originally posted by Handsome Jack View Post
    Human rights are great in Israel for Jews.

    Arabs and Muslims, though.......
    Depends on where in Israel you go. Palestinian camps truly are horrible, but not every Arab or Muslim living in Israel is placed in camps behind walls.

    Leave a comment:


  • wolfhnd
    replied
    The bias in favor of Jews in Israel is a reflection of their own special mythology but fundamentally Israel is a secular society. How non Jews are treated is a matter of debate but clearly woman and other groups are treated inline with current thinking on human rights something you will not find in Israel's neighbors. Israel could be said to be on the path to enlightenment while it's neighbors have elected to return to the dark ages.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nichols
    replied
    Originally posted by Handsome Jack View Post
    Human rights are great in Israel for Jews.

    Arabs and Muslims, though.......
    You really need to travel outside of the United States. Expand your horizons, don't count on the Internet only.

    Leave a comment:


  • Handsome Jack
    replied
    Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
    We have to support Israel because it is the only even remotely liberal democracy in the region. If you can't agree that human rights are better protected in Israel than in it's neighbors you must have head buried in the sand.

    I would argue that human rights are better protected in Israel despite it's religious identity not because of it. The Israeli government is modeled on Western ideas of secular government. If liberals see support for Israel as Western hegemony then it is clear that Israel's neighbors represent the alternative.
    Human rights are great in Israel for Jews.

    Arabs and Muslims, though.......

    Leave a comment:


  • wolfhnd
    replied
    We have to support Israel because it is the only even remotely liberal democracy in the region. If you can't agree that human rights are better protected in Israel than in it's neighbors you must have head buried in the sand.

    I would argue that human rights are better protected in Israel despite it's religious identity not because of it. The Israeli government is modeled on Western ideas of secular government. If liberals see support for Israel as Western hegemony then it is clear that Israel's neighbors represent the alternative.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lāčplēsis
    replied
    Nobody so far as actually articulated how the death and destruction will happen. Maybe because it will not. Apart from self-interest I would hazard a guess that diplomats talk to each other and that chats happen behind closed doors. Actually I'd like to know Limbaugh's view on this.

    Leave a comment:


  • Taieb el-Okbi
    replied
    Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
    Saying "I want to see you go down" is a far cry from "I want to see you die".
    When I see a large group of people chanting and the chant is translated as down with America , to me they might as well be chanting death to America.

    That said there are religious figures in Iran whom are more peaceful then what we often see on fox news for example.

    You have any comment on the p5+1? I take it you disagree with the nuclear deal.

    Leave a comment:


  • Daemon of Decay
    replied
    Originally posted by Taieb el-Okbi View Post
    I feel that saying down with Israel/America is the same as saying death to Israel/American.
    Saying "I want to see you go down" is a far cry from "I want to see you die".

    Leave a comment:


  • Taieb el-Okbi
    replied
    Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
    And I'm pointing out the hypocrisy on the part of the Iranian government regarding international dealings versus domestic ones - it translates its own "death to Israel/America" message as "down with Israel/America" for foreign consumption. At home, the message remains the same.
    I feel that saying down with Israel/America is the same as saying death to Israel/American.


    Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
    As long as that state continues to broadcast such an official line to the people, the states so threatened have a reason to be nervous.
    It should be interesting to see how things unfold for the future though, hopefully the death chants can stop. As I said before I dont believe the p5+1 would have worked out this deal with Iran if they thought it would end up being a dangerous deal.

    Leave a comment:


  • Taieb el-Okbi
    replied
    Originally posted by Lāčplēsis View Post
    Who said Muslims despise Jews? Mohammad never said or wrote that. If you are talking about borders, I guess Q8's border is 30 minutes away from Iran's by car. Post 2003 I drove to Basra's CPO HQ from Q8. Iran was just across the Shatt al-Arab. The ultimate point is we are in a globalized world and the 'Arabs' know this as much as the Iranians and don't need a war by any means. It would hurt everyone. Somewhat democratically. But it would not make the soft stuff nicer.
    Good post here Lāčplēsis. Muhammad told the Muslims to stand with respect when a Jews bier would pass by. The terror that Hamas engages in goes against the peaceful message of Islam.

    Leave a comment:


  • Daemon of Decay
    replied
    Originally posted by Taieb el-Okbi View Post
    What you say is a vitriol government is the same gov that negotiated with the P5+1. There are plenty of voices in Iran including at times President Rouhani whom talks about peaceful relations with the USA. I disagree with your approach. The US military is the strongest military in the world, I'm not to worried. I do not believe that the p5+1 would have worked out this deal if they felt the deal would be dangerous.
    And I'm pointing out the hypocrisy on the part of the Iranian government regarding international dealings versus domestic ones - it translates its own "death to Israel/America" message as "down with Israel/America" for foreign consumption. At home, the message remains the same.

    As long as that state continues to broadcast such an official line to the people, the states so threatened have a reason to be nervous.

    Leave a comment:

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