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U.S. Offers to Help Israel Bolster Defenses

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  • Taieb el-Okbi
    replied
    Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
    I'm not talking about the people, I'm talking about the government.

    If the government's message at home is broadcast as "death to Israel" and "death to America" then those two nations have solid reasons to be concerned. I've met plenty of Persians in my life, and they've all been wonderful people - but their views don't trump what vitriol the government itself is spewing.

    What you say is a vitriol government is the same gov that negotiated with the P5+1. There are plenty of voices in Iran including at times President Rouhani whom talks about peaceful relations with the USA. I disagree with your approach. The US military is the strongest military in the world, I'm not to worried. I do not believe that the p5+1 would have worked out this deal if they felt the deal would be dangerous.
    Last edited by Taieb el-Okbi; 16 Jul 15, 18:17.

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  • Lāčplēsis
    replied
    Originally posted by Handsome Jack View Post
    Would you feel very cordial to a rampaging nation on your borders that's propped up and kept running by Western aid, serving Western interests, that despises Muslims as much as Muslims despise Jews?

    I'm not saying Iran is right, but they're definitely not unreasonable. Israel's threatened to nuke Iran too, and has made threats of invasion. Iran has every reason to want Israel gone and to defend itself. That's where the hypocrisy comes in; Israel can get nuclear weaponry and massive amounts of aid because it "has a right to self-defense", but when Iran gets nuclear weaponry or aid, it has no right to defend itself.
    Who said Muslims despise Jews? Mohammad never said or wrote that. If you are talking about borders, I guess Q8's border is 30 minutes away from Iran's by car. Post 2003 I drove to Basra's CPO HQ from Q8. Iran was just across the Shatt al-Arab. The ultimate point is we are in a globalized world and the 'Arabs' know this as much as the Iranians and don't need a war by any means. It would hurt everyone. Somewhat democratically. But it would not make the soft stuff nicer.

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  • Handsome Jack
    replied
    Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
    I'm not talking about the people, I'm talking about the government.

    If the government's message at home is broadcast as "death to Israel" and "death to America" then those two nations have solid reasons to be concerned. I've met plenty of Persians in my life, and they've all been wonderful people - but their views don't trump what vitriol the government itself is spewing.
    Would you feel very cordial to a rampaging nation on your borders that's propped up and kept running by Western aid, serving Western interests, that despises Muslims as much as Muslims despise Jews?

    I'm not saying Iran is right, but they're definitely not unreasonable. Israel's threatened to nuke Iran too, and has made threats of invasion. Iran has every reason to want Israel gone and to defend itself. That's where the hypocrisy comes in; Israel can get nuclear weaponry and massive amounts of aid because it "has a right to self-defense", but when Iran gets nuclear weaponry or aid, it has no right to defend itself.

    Leave a comment:


  • Daemon of Decay
    replied
    Originally posted by Taieb el-Okbi View Post
    The whole death to Israel and for that matter death to Iran thing can be countered by Iranians themselves. There are tolerant people within the religious aspects of Iranian society. For example, to believe all the religious folks in Iran are terrorists is similar to how some folks believe that to be an American tax payer=terrorist.

    I cant help but notice how the Vatican as well as and other religious leaders, as well as political leaders around the world are pleased with this nuclear deal.

    You will see there are No death chants here in this following Iranian made Music video,
    I'm not talking about the people, I'm talking about the government.

    If the government's message at home is broadcast as "death to Israel" and "death to America" then those two nations have solid reasons to be concerned. I've met plenty of Persians in my life, and they've all been wonderful people - but their views don't trump what vitriol the government itself is spewing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Taieb el-Okbi
    replied
    Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
    Indeed. The best sign of this is to look at Iranian propaganda in Persian versus in English.

    Messages like "Death to Israel" are somehow 'translated' as "Down with Israel" by Iran...

    A nation running around telling its own people that they need to destroy another nation and seeking nuclear weapons is a clear and present threat, no two ways about it.

    Arguments about the realities of a military solution and if the deal will work is fine, but nobody should be ignorant of the fact that Iran is still preaching death and warfare domestically.
    The whole death to Israel and for that matter death to America thing can be countered by Iranians themselves. There are even tolerant people within the religious aspects of Iranian society. To believe all the religious folks in Iran are terrorists is similar to how some folks believe that to be an American tax payer=terrorist.

    I cant help but notice how the Vatican as well as and other religious leaders, as well as political leaders around the world are pleased with this nuclear deal.

    You will see there are No death chants here in this following Iranian made Music video,

    Leave a comment:


  • Daemon of Decay
    replied
    Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
    Firstly, it won't be unprovoked. Iran's bomb project coupled with all the broadcast hate is ample reason.
    Indeed. The best sign of this is to look at Iranian propaganda in Persian versus in English.

    Messages like "Death to Israel" are somehow 'translated' as "Down with Israel" by Iran...

    A nation running around telling its own people that they need to destroy another nation and seeking nuclear weapons is a clear and present threat, no two ways about it.

    Arguments about the realities of a military solution and if the deal will work is fine, but nobody should be ignorant of the fact that Iran is still preaching death and warfare domestically.

    Leave a comment:


  • Arnold J Rimmer
    replied
    Originally posted by Lāčplēsis View Post
    Err... have you calculated US income there is from the Gulf vs. aid to Israel? Plus why do imagine Iran wants to commit suicide by bombing Israel? If you want to put workers out of business that is your affair. I say keep the region buying everything from ships to sealing wax.

    Credit is more common than actual cash these days. And HH the Amir Sabah al-Ahmad is a canny fellow. i.e. he understands politics. Peace helps spending more than a war nobody except BeBe wants.. but he is not paying cash....
    Why does Iran seek a nuke while spewing hatred against two nuclear powers? Why is ISIL/ISIS lopping off heads and smashing antiques?

    You try to apply pure logic, you end up with Munich. When Israel puts a serious hurt on Iran, that will be that.

    We have no friends in the region save Israel, and none who fall in that region are any loss. Between the fundamentalists and a little judicious use of firepower, we can destabilize the entire region and keep them at each other's throats for decades. Look at Lebanon: It could have been the Switzerland II in terms of banking. But a few taps on cultural fault lines and they fought themselves back to nothing. Iraq and Syria are wrecks, Egypt isn't in such good shape, Pakistan has India and internal instability...the list goes on.

    Leave a comment:


  • ljadw
    replied
    The Romans said : Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes .

    An actualised translation : Beware of Obama,especially when he is making promises .

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  • Lāčplēsis
    replied
    Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
    the region.

    Our only ally in the region is Israel.
    Err... have you calculated US income there is from the Gulf vs. aid to Israel? Plus why do imagine Iran wants to commit suicide by bombing Israel? If you want to put workers out of business that is your affair. I say keep the region buying everything from ships to sealing wax.

    Credit is more common than actual cash these days. And HH the Amir Sabah al-Ahmad is a canny fellow. i.e. he understands politics. Peace helps spending more than a war nobody except BeBe wants.. but he is not paying cash....

    Leave a comment:


  • Arnold J Rimmer
    replied
    Originally posted by Lāčplēsis View Post
    OK... but, having been in Bahrain during the Iran-Iraq war, the sound of artillery did not a lot for economic confidence. Things - and financial markets have ramped up a lot since then and when Dubai went down the tubes 2008, the US market did not ride high on a crest of a wave. I am just suggesting it one thing sitting in the US and thinking.. OK, bomb foreigners... and another thing looking at the implcations. Not least how all the tens of thousands of peaceful Iranians quietly working in the Gulf are going to react to an unprovoked attack... and so on and so on...
    Firstly, it won't be unprovoked. Iran's bomb project coupled with all the broadcast hate is ample reason.

    If they're really peaceful, who cares how they'll react? Whatever they do will be peaceful.

    If they're not peaceful, they're the enemy anyway, so again, the region.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lāčplēsis
    replied
    Originally posted by Armored Fist View Post
    Maybe this is part of the President's economic policy? Put Israel into a corner, then watch as defense manufacturing ramps-up to play on the fear created by his foreign policy...
    OK... but, having been in Bahrain during the Iran-Iraq war, the sound of artillery did not a lot for economic confidence. Things - and financial markets have ramped up a lot since then and when Dubai went down the tubes 2008, the US market did not ride high on a crest of a wave. I am just suggesting it one thing sitting in the US and thinking.. OK, bomb foreigners... and another thing looking at the implcations. Not least how all the tens of thousands of peaceful Iranians quietly working in the Gulf are going to react to an unprovoked attack... and so on and so on...

    Leave a comment:


  • Taieb el-Okbi
    replied
    Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
    Netanyahu has it right.

    And now between the Dems sucking up, and hopefully a GOP Prez next time, we'll give them the ability to really put serious, long-lasting harm on Iran.
    I cant see this happening. If you follow current topics you will be aware that it was the P5+1 which worked out the deal with Iran. All around the world there are political as well as religious leaders whom are praising this deal with Iran.

    Recently, the US conducted a 100 billion$ arms deal with Saudi Arabia. Our friends in the ME are not going anywhere

    The military aid that Israel receives from the USA is not so much compared to the military equipment that Saudi buys from the USA. Yes Saudi pays us, which is actually a much better deal then having to give away aid to Israel. Dont get me wrong unlike the extremists I can say that Israel is the Jewish state, I recognize Israel as the Jewish state just as ex Israeli Ambassador Michael Oren talks about how Israel is the Jewish state. Jews are beautiful people, so are Muslims. I can also say that the GCC states such as Kuwait and the UAE to name a few, are home to such kind and wonderful people.

    Even some of the leaders of the GCC states spoke with a level of respect toward the Iran Nuclear deal,

    Kuwait's emir, Sheikh Sabah al-Ahmad al-Sabah, hoped the deal would help to "direct all efforts for the development" of the region.

    http://news.yahoo.com/world-leaders-...141113251.html

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  • Arnold J Rimmer
    replied
    Originally posted by Lāčplēsis View Post
    And that is going to help the region the other side of the Persian Gulf????

    Well.... some of your friendly allies may not be buying US arms.... (not from US aid but with cash).
    the region.

    Our only ally in the region is Israel.

    And weapons always sell. The longer the fundamentalists run, the more weapons will be sold.

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  • Armored Fist
    replied
    Maybe this is part of the President's economic policy? Put Israel into a corner, then watch as defense manufacturing ramps-up to play on the fear created by his foreign policy...

    Leave a comment:


  • Lāčplēsis
    replied
    Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
    Netanyahu has it right.

    And now between the Dems sucking up, and hopefully a GOP Prez next time, we'll give them the ability to really put serious, long-lasting harm on Iran.
    And that is going to help the region the other side of the Persian Gulf????

    Well.... some of your friendly allies may not be buying US arms.... (not from US aid but with cash).

    Leave a comment:

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