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Fine and a Gag Order

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  • #76
    If you read the original National Review article, one of the points which the author makes is that a regulatory agency brings the charges, judges the charges, and assesses the penalty. There's no separation of powers here.

    Under Oregon law, the decision can be appealed to the Oregon Court of Appeals, an intermediate level court.

    So, yes, in principle, they can appeal the decision, at additional expense, and with an additional delay in getting on with their lives.

    The Regulatory State can bankrupt any of us.
    Don't leave good whiskey for the damn Yankees!" John Hunt Morgan, Eagleport, Ohio, July 23, 1863

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    • #77
      Did I say anything about a cake in Ireland? Please show me where I stated that.
      First Counsul Maleketh of Jonov

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Delenda estRoma View Post
        Did I say anything about a cake in Ireland? Please show me where I stated that.
        Are you being intentionally difficult? Go back to Post 20 of this thread.

        You're arguing that the gay couple in Oregon did not want an offensive message on their cake. No one seems to know what inscription they may have wanted, but let's assume that your assertion is correct.

        However, that's not what my line of argument is about. It is the reaction of the pro-gay bakers when asked to prepare a cake with the inscription "Gay Marriage is Wrong." The case was prompted by a bakery in Ireland being sued to be forced to supply a cake inscribed "Support Gay Marriage." Certainly, we are not comparing "apples and oranges" but I think the reactions are illustrative.
        Don't leave good whiskey for the damn Yankees!" John Hunt Morgan, Eagleport, Ohio, July 23, 1863

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Gixxer86g View Post
          God hates cigarettes. Got it. Although, I'm not quite sure how a cigarette equals anal sex.
          Who hasn't enjoyed a cigarette after the act?

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          • #80
            Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
            The relevant part of the order:

            “The Commissioner of the Bureau of Labor and Industries hereby orders [Aaron and Melissa Klein] to cease and desist from publishing, circulating, issuing or displaying, or causing to be published … any communication to the effect that any of the accommodations … will be refused, withheld from or denied to, or that any discrimination be made against, any person on account of their sexual orientation,” Avakian wrote.


            That is not limited to "advertising".
            Ehm... English is not my first language but I read legal language better than you?

            It is exactly what it is says. The bakers may not advertise (communicate, circulate or display) anything that claims they are refusing gays in their store.

            This is an uphill battle. Back to school.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Gaius_Marius View Post
              Ehm... English is not my first language but I read legal language better than you?

              It is exactly what it is says. The bakers may not advertise (communicate, circulate or display) anything that claims they are refusing gays in their store.

              This is an uphill battle. Back to school.


              English is my first language and I have a passing grasp of how to draft an order and its scope.
              The fact that you disagree with me isn't proof that I am wrong.

              You will note that the word "advertise" does not appear in the order.
              As such, it cannot be interpreted to be limited to "advertising". The operative word is "publish". They are prohibited from "publishing", not just advertising.

              They are prohibited from saying anything about refusing to work on gay weddings.
              Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

              Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
                English is my first language and I have a passing grasp of how to draft an order and its scope.
                The fact that you disagree with me isn't proof that I am wrong.

                You will note that the word "advertise" does not appear in the order.
                As such, it cannot be interpreted to be limited to "advertising". The operative word is "publish". They are prohibited from "publishing", not just advertising.

                They are prohibited from saying anything about refusing to work on gay weddings.
                Oh dear Lord. No... The word advertise does not appear in the legal text. The thing is to read and comprehend the whole text though. And to do that you need to take of the partisan or wishful glasses.

                They may not publish advertisement about their store that says they refuse catering gays or people with a sexual orientation they disagree with.
                Publishing in this context is solely referencing material about their store which talks about them discriminating based on sexual orientation.

                Now... They could publish a moral pamphlet denigrating and condemning people of other sexual orientations as long as it is not in any way connected to their store and what people they service it said store.

                Jesus... I simply cannot comprehend that you need me to write this much text to understand a very simple order from the judge. Either your partisanship clouds everything you see or your English is utterly terrible for an English speaking person.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by Gaius_Marius View Post
                  Oh dear Lord. No... The word advertise does not appear in the legal text. The thing is to read and comprehend the whole text though. And to do that you need to take of the partisan or wishful glasses.

                  They may not publish advertisement about their store that says they refuse catering gays or people with a sexual orientation they disagree with.
                  Publishing in this context is solely referencing material about their store which talks about them discriminating based on sexual orientation.

                  Now... They could publish a moral pamphlet denigrating and condemning people of other sexual orientations as long as it is not in any way connected to their store and what people they service it said store.

                  Jesus... I simply cannot comprehend that you need me to write this much text to understand a very simple order from the judge. Either your partisanship clouds everything you see or your English is utterly terrible for an English speaking person.



                  The only reason you need to write so much text is because you have to insert limitations and meanings to the order that are not there.
                  You will also note that the order says nothing about the store. It prohibits the individuals from speaking. Not just "on behalf of the store".
                  If the order was limited to "advertising", it would be a quick and easy analysis, because the order would say so.

                  Again, the operative word is "publish". They may not "publish" on that issue regardless of whether the intent is to "advertise" or not.

                  The order was written by an "administrative law judge", not a "judge".
                  One of my responsibilities is to review orders written by administrative law judges as part of the appeal process.
                  So please tell me more about how to review orders written by administrative law judges.
                  Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                  Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

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                  • #84
                    Personal insults against other forum users are not allowed.

                    The thread will be closed for 24 hours to let people cool off.

                    ACG Staff
                    Last edited by Daemon of Decay; 09 Jul 15, 22:07.

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