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South Carolina Senate Votes to Remove Confederate Flag From Capitol

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Handsome Jack View Post
    >2015
    >still believing the Civil War was only about slavery
    If that were what I believed (and it isn't) it would be light years closer to the truth than the 'fighting for freedom' narrative that has become so popular among apologists.

    I look forward to you finding some link between the Union & Zionism.
    Human beings are the only creatures on Earth that claim a god and the only living thing that behaves like it hasn't got one - Hunter S. Thompson

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    • #17
      Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post
      Slavery was an issue. A major issue. Maybe even the primary issue. But you don't get that many non slave owners to vote for secession and fight and die and lose everything just for the top 1 percent. There has to be a cause they can identify with in play as well.
      The social aspects of slavery were well documented as well.

      First, you have the aspirational element of working to get a slave: it was the dream of many poorer southerners of eventually being wealthy enough to own a slave or two.

      Second, the cultural element: slavery was so ingrained into the culture of the south - especially amongst the elite, who held undue influence within the United States both north and south - that the idea of removing slavery was an attack on their very society.

      Third, you have the racist fears which are so often ignored or pushed aside: namely, the idea that millions of freed negroes would lead to widespread lawlessness, theft, assault, and above all, the rape of white women. Freed slaves was a danger to the livelihood of southerners, and racist fears were fanned whenever the idea of abolition was mentioned.

      Fourth, you have the base economic nature of slavery. In the southern mind where cotton was king, the idea of abolition was an inherent threat to all of the south's economic might. The idea that freeing slaves would be the first step towards complete economic ruination and (ironically) the "slavery" of the south to the north.

      Now, all of these ideas and fears overlap with other concerns as well. The paranoia about northern economic might was tied into tariffs and other issues.

      However, the reason slavery is still the cause of the Civil War is because there is no other issue so central to the conflict. You could remove tariffs from the picture and the Civil War would still have occurred, but you don't have a fight without slavery acting as the pillar around which conflict arose.

      The idea that slavery was the only issue is false, of course. But slavery was the issue behind the Civil War - everything else was just extra tinder to help light the flames.

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      • #18
        An amendment to allow the people to vote on the flag was defeated 71-48 in the SC House. Interesting. That means at least 48 aren't too thrilled with the process at hand. And 48 is more than 1/3 of House membership.
        {}

        "Any story sounds true until someone tells the other side and sets the record straight." -Proverbs 18:17

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        • #19
          The Confederate Battle Flag is a historical artifact and historically it is a symbol of defeat.

          I is not uncommon for a people to display the symbols from a time before they were defeated. For example the Japanese still display their WWII battle flags. The Japanese however are wise enough not to rub it in the noses of their former enemies by making it an official state symbol.

          There is lies the problem as a defeated people unable to come to grips with reality will continue to live in the past and be able to progress normally. No more evidence of this is required than the failure of the South to accept the civil rights movement as evidence of progress. If the racial problems in this country had ended with the civil war then we would not be having this discussion. As it is however our failure to move forward makes us all victims of the sins of our fathers both North and South.

          You simply can't argue that without slavery racial conflict in the U.S. would be as severe as it is as the racial makeup would be markedly different. Keeping that in mind the direct link between Slave States and racial discord is evident. Any attempt to disconnect Slave States from racial disharmony is intellectual dishonesty.
          We hunt the hunters

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          • #20
            Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post

            You simply can't argue that without slavery racial conflict in the U.S. would be as severe as it is as the racial makeup would be markedly different. Keeping that in mind the direct link between Slave States and racial discord is evident. Any attempt to disconnect Slave States from racial disharmony is intellectual dishonesty.
            - Selective condemnation of a symbol.

            Neo-Nazis use the US flag all across the country.
            {}

            "Any story sounds true until someone tells the other side and sets the record straight." -Proverbs 18:17

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