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  • Polygamy Is Here

    I know many liberal posters here mock the idea that permitting same-sex marriage would lead to slippery slope on permitting other kinds of marriage. Unfortunately for them, it turns out conservative argument in favor of traditional marriage might be valid after all. Apparently some people are now pushing for legalization of polygamy now that same-sex marriage is protected under 14th Amendment where it says all citizens to be treated equally by law.

    Please read the article at this link: http://www.redstate.com/2015/07/01/polygamy/
    From the first camp, we have Fredrik DeBoer writing It’s Time to Legalize Polygamy:
    To be clear: our lack of legal recognition of group marriages is not the fault of the marriage equality movement. Rather, it’s that the tactics of that movement have made getting to serious discussions of legalized polygamy harder. I say that while recognizing the unprecedented and necessary success of those tactics. I understand the political pragmatism in wanting to hold the line—to not be perceived to be slipping down the slope. To advocate for polygamy during the marriage equality fight may have seemed to confirm the socially conservative narrative, that gay marriage augured a wholesale collapse in traditional values. But times have changed; while work remains to be done, the immediate danger to marriage equality has passed. In 2005, a denial of the right to group marriage stemming from political pragmatism made at least some sense. In 2015, after this ruling, it no longer does.

    While important legal and practical questions remain unresolved, with the Supreme Court’s ruling and broad public support, marriage equality is here to stay. Soon, it will be time to turn the attention of social liberalism to the next horizon. Given that many of us have argued, to great effect, that deference to tradition is not a legitimate reason to restrict marriage rights to groups that want them, the next step seems clear. We should turn our efforts towards the legal recognition of marriages between more than two partners. It’s time to legalize polygamy.

    DeBoer is right. The progressive mantra that homosexual marriage would not, inexorably, lead to polyamorous marriage (both polygamy and polyandry) was a political tactic designed to get the Great Unwashed to go along with the idea. Hooray. It worked. But as a matter of law, Kennedy’s decision in Obergefell, but particularly in Windsor, made it very clear that marriage is a Constitutional right — never mind that historically marriage has been a privilege bestowed by either the Church or State — and as a right it is difficult to limit its scope.

    Once you give an inch, others will go a mile in getting what they want.

    Historically polygamy makes more sense than homosexual marriages because of the value in terms of reaping political and economic benefits.

    Homosexual marriages produce no such benefit and for most part, nearly all cultures tend to look down anyone participating in homosexuality as scandalous. For example, the critics of Julius Caesar often slandered him based on rumors that he was a lover of a foreign king and that he was a 'catcher' or 'submissive' partner in the homosexual relationship. This was in a society where its attitude toward sex is less puritanical than our society today.

    Slippery slope isn't imaginary, it's very real and we're about to witness moral depravity that comes with allowance of same-sex marriage in our society.
    Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

    "Aim small, miss small."

  • #2
    So someone wrote an article and then a website wrote an article about the article and the end result is polygamy is a lock. Interesting thought process.
    “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
    “To talk of many things:
    Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
    Of cabbages—and kings—
    And why the sea is boiling hot—
    And whether pigs have wings.”
    ― Lewis Carroll

    Comment


    • #3
      He's just upset that some men will be able to have multiple wives and he can't even find one...

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
        So someone wrote an article and then a website wrote an article about the article and the end result is polygamy is a lock. Interesting thought process.
        And it proves slippery slope is real. Sorry if that destroys your argument that same-sex marriage can't hurt anyone and won't lead to other kinds of marriage being allowed.

        Like I said, welcome to New World, kid.
        Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

        "Aim small, miss small."

        Comment


        • #5
          I thought conservatives believed in traditional values


          What the Bible says about Polygamy

          Genesis 4:19 And Lamech took unto him two wives.

          Genesis 16:1-4 Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar. And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai. And Sarai ... gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife. And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived.

          Genesis 25:6 But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had....

          Genesis 26:34 Esau ... took to wife Judith the daughter of Beeri the Hittite, and Bashemath the daughter of Elon the Hittite.

          Genesis 31:17 Then Jacob rose up, and set ... his wives upon camels.

          Exodus 21:10 If he take him another wife....

          Deuteronomy 21:15 If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated....

          Judges 8:30 And Gideon had threescore and ten sons of his body begotten: for he had many wives.

          1 Samuel 1:1-2 Elkanah ... had two wives; the name of the one was Hannah, and the name of the other Peninnah.

          2 Samuel 12:7-8 Thus saith the LORD God of Israel ... I gave thee ... thy master's wives....

          1 Kings 11:2-3 Solomon ... had seven hundred wives ... and three hundred concubines.

          1 Chronicles 4:5 And Ashur the father of Tekoa had two wives, Helah and Naarah.

          2 Chronicles 11:21 Rehoboam ... took eighteen wives, and threescore concubines.

          2 Chronicles 13:21 But Abijah waxed mighty, and married fourteen wives....

          2 Chronicles 24:3 Jehoiada took for him two wives....

          Mt.25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.


          I guess even religious people can be progressive.
          We hunt the hunters

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Cheetah772 View Post
            And it proves slippery slope is real. Sorry if that destroys your argument that same-sex marriage can't hurt anyone and won't lead to other kinds of marriage being allowed.

            Like I said, welcome to New World, kid.
            No it 'proves' that two authors can write articles. Nothing more.
            “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
            “To talk of many things:
            Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
            Of cabbages—and kings—
            And why the sea is boiling hot—
            And whether pigs have wings.”
            ― Lewis Carroll

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
              I thought conservatives believed in traditional values


              What the Bible says about Polygamy

              Genesis 4:19 And Lamech took unto him two wives.

              Genesis 16:1-4 Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar. And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai. And Sarai ... gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife. And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived.

              Genesis 25:6 But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had....

              Genesis 26:34 Esau ... took to wife Judith the daughter of Beeri the Hittite, and Bashemath the daughter of Elon the Hittite.

              Genesis 31:17 Then Jacob rose up, and set ... his wives upon camels.

              Exodus 21:10 If he take him another wife....

              Deuteronomy 21:15 If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated....

              Judges 8:30 And Gideon had threescore and ten sons of his body begotten: for he had many wives.

              1 Samuel 1:1-2 Elkanah ... had two wives; the name of the one was Hannah, and the name of the other Peninnah.

              2 Samuel 12:7-8 Thus saith the LORD God of Israel ... I gave thee ... thy master's wives....

              1 Kings 11:2-3 Solomon ... had seven hundred wives ... and three hundred concubines.

              1 Chronicles 4:5 And Ashur the father of Tekoa had two wives, Helah and Naarah.

              2 Chronicles 11:21 Rehoboam ... took eighteen wives, and threescore concubines.

              2 Chronicles 13:21 But Abijah waxed mighty, and married fourteen wives....

              2 Chronicles 24:3 Jehoiada took for him two wives....

              Mt.25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.


              I guess even religious people can be progressive.
              Actually you're forgetting one thing. God started out with one man and one woman. Polygamy started with Cain's lineage, not Seth's lineage. Cain's descendants were men who did not embrace the Lord as their God.

              When Noah and his sons entered the Ark, they each had ONE wife.

              Yes, some kings, especially David and Solomon had multiple wives, but that came with a heavy price. In David's case, it led to jealousy among the children and eventually led one son to murder another and attempted to take over David's throne. In Solomon's case, it led to his downfall and establishment of many idolatrous temples in Israel, which also caused Israel to fall into spiritual apostasy.

              Did Jesus select apostles who had multiple wives? Nope. If God had truly blessed polygamy, you'd think Jesus would have picked an apostle that had many wives. Apostle Paul wrote in 1 Timothy, chapter 3, that a bishop (a pastor) mus be husband of ONE wife. The same standard is applied to deacons as well.

              So no, although the Bible makes it plainly clear that some people did have many wives and perhaps for a time was blessed by God (see David), it carries with a heavy price in terms of spiritual stability and obedience to God.

              Finally, maybe we should look at Abraham, the Father of Jews, he only had one wife. When they struggled to conceive a baby, Sarah urged her husband to conceive by a mistress, Hagar. To cut a story short, Hagar's descendants today hate Israel with all passion and want to see Israel destroyed. So Abraham made a huge mistake and should have stayed with his wife, waiting patiently for God to bless them with a baby.

              There you go. Polygamy exists in the Bible, but never is totally approved by God and carries with it a heavy price.

              Your argument is thoroughly refuted.

              I taught at a Bible college, so I know my stuff. Enough said.
              Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

              "Aim small, miss small."

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                No it 'proves' that two authors can write articles. Nothing more.
                No, it proves that there some people working hard to legalize polygamy and maybe in 50 years they will get what they want.

                Like I said again, welcome to New World, kid. You wanted it, and it's here now. So...embrace the New World.
                Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

                "Aim small, miss small."

                Comment


                • #9
                  I personally have no problem with consenting adult humans engaging in whatever kind of sexual activity they find enjoyable. What is this, Stalinist Russia? But really, I find things like sex-slavery, arranged marriages, beastitly and pedophila to be more barbaric for they are all forced and not consensual.

                  I'm okay with prostitution and polygamy as long as it only involves consensual adults.
                  ´
                  “You need to help people. I know it's not very Republican to say but you need to help people.” DONALD TRUMP, 2016

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jonathanrex1 View Post
                    I personally have no problem with consenting adult humans engaging in whatever kind of sexual activity they find enjoyable.

                    What is this, Stalinist Russia?
                    I know, I'm puzzled by Combat Engineer's reluctance with allowing polygamy in America. Isn't that what 14th Amendment is all about? Come on, if one embraces same-sex marriage, then allowances have to be made for other kinds of marriage as well. No exceptions.

                    I'm really baffled here!
                    Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

                    "Aim small, miss small."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cheetah772 View Post
                      I know, I'm puzzled by Combat Engineer's reluctance with allowing polygamy in America. Isn't that what 14th Amendment is all about? Come on, if one embraces same-sex marriage, then allowances have to be made for other kinds of marriage as well. No exceptions.

                      I'm really baffled here!
                      I have nothing against Polygamous relationships. My only problem with official state-sanctied marriages is how would inheritance, child-support, divorce and life insurance work? It's a lot easier to deal with these things when it's an easy 50/50 split between partners. But 3 or 6 or 12 partners? And with varying gender ratios?
                      ´
                      “You need to help people. I know it's not very Republican to say but you need to help people.” DONALD TRUMP, 2016

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                        No it 'proves' that two authors can write articles. Nothing more.
                        Wait.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                          So someone wrote an article and then a website wrote an article about the article and the end result is polygamy is a lock. Interesting thought process.
                          Really? Someone applied today at the Midland Court House to marry again without a divorce. He was turned down, for now.
                          “Breaking News,”

                          “Something irrelevant in your life just happened and now we are going to blow it all out of proportion for days to keep you distracted from what's really going on.”

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                          • #14
                            Polygamous marriage is fine with me as long as it is between consenting adults.
                            First Counsul Maleketh of Jonov

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Delenda estRoma View Post
                              Polygamous marriage is fine with me as long as it is between consenting adults.
                              I agree but there are legal issues that will come with officially sanctioned marriages.

                              For instance, say you have a family consisting of four wives (A, B, C, D) and two husbands (1,2) with five children (A1, A2, C1, D1). Wives A and B want a divorce. If they get the divorce, is the reaming group still legally considered the same marriage as before? Let's say for argument sake they are so we can continue this story.

                              A and B both want full custody of A's biological children along with D's child.

                              Wive D and Husband 1 objects. Who get's the children?

                              If wives A and B get the children, do their reaming members of the marriage share visitation time or will only husband 2 be allowed as wive B wants ?

                              And who would be required to provide child support payments to wives A and B? Traditional family court rulings usually suggest the husband. But in this case, there's two. And in this family wive C earns the most.

                              As you can see, it's one big legal mess for everyone involved. Including the government.
                              ´
                              “You need to help people. I know it's not very Republican to say but you need to help people.” DONALD TRUMP, 2016

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