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Wisconsin school district bans American Indian team logos

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Delenda estRoma View Post
    I fully agree. The logo is beyond nauseating. It degrades and makes fun of an entire race of people.
    No, it doesn't.

    This PC movement is
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    • #62
      Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
      So, the question is, what constitutes a "positive stereotype" of native Americans?

      It would be interesting to know which Native American mascots/logos that Native Americans themselves would approve of. As a Catholic, I proudly approve of the Crusader related logos that I have seen used by a # of high schools and universities here in the USA.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Pirateship1982 View Post
        Actually, bringing up the fighting Irish is on topic. This is a discussion about racial team logos. And this brings up a valid point: varying degrees of sensitivity.

        If you are a particularly sensitive individual, you could make an argument that the absolute most racist thing we do in this country is celebrate St. Patrick's Day. Green beer? Leprechaun outfits? Eating corned beef? Imagine if we had a holiday where we drank grape soda, ate fried chicken, and called it Aunt Jemima day? That would pretty much be on par with St. Patrick's if we were to decide that St. Pat's is offensive.

        What this whole controversy boils down to is differing sensibilities. Certain subgroups of America don't mind being caricatured. And those that don't mind being caricatured themselves don't see what the fuss is about when caricaturing others. To reference DoD's hat post, there are Jews who totally laugh along with Jewish caricatures - and there are those who find them offensive.

        Now I'm not saying those offended by such symbols don't have a legitimate argument, I'm simply diagnosing what is going on. And when it comes to reconciling both views, neither side should be minimized. But what I will say is that when it comes to determining offensive sports symbols, my approach would be to poll what Native Americans actually think. Because if there's one thing America has no shortage of, it's outrage by proxy. A lot of people screaming about the Redskins and other such logos are people that are about as Native American as Hu Jintao. Lots of people like to get outraged on behalf of Native Americans. I'd be more interested on what the Native Americans themselves think. If THEY like it, keep it. If THEY call to remove it, remove it.
        You hit the nail on the head.

        And at the heart of the argument and the discontent at "political correctness" is generally the dissatisfaction that attitudes are changing in a way someone doesn't agree.

        The truth of the matter is that offensiveness as a motivator for change is highly democratic - nobody cares if one person is offended. But as more and more people agree that something is offensive, the calls gain momentum because it becomes harder to ignore the voices of so many people.

        Offensiveness is subjective and has many different variables, but that doesn't make it irrelevant or dismissible either.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Charger View Post

          Who cares what they think?
          And this sums up the issue in a nutshell.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Taieb el-Okbi View Post
            It would be interesting to know which Native American mascots/logos that Native Americans themselves would approve of. As a Catholic, I proudly approve of the Crusader related logos that I have seen used by a # of high schools and universities here in the USA.
            There are some college team names derived from local tribes who have the full support of said tribes.

            There are also some Indian school teams who use the Redskins name themselves.

            The issue is not a simple one. The idea that every Native American everywhere is as equally invested or insulted is silly. So too would be the idea that it isn't offensive at all for the reasons listed above.

            The organizations representing the largest confederations of natives have officially come down against the Redskins. The last poll I saw asking natives about their views was over a decade old and relied upon 'self-identifying' native Americans with no question as to tribal affiliation or identification.

            As Pirate says, knowing the opinion of the group in question does matter a lot. When they feel insulted, it cannot be claimed to be an honor. Likewise, if they don't care, then the calls about how offensive it is can be safely ignored as a fringe mentality.

            But in the end, it will rely upon more democratic principles.

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            • #66
              Man...a bunch of white people trying to determine what is and isn't offensive to non-whites: that is offensive.

              I grew up in a school whose team and mascot were Indian-centeric. There were two of us in the system, to the best of my knowledge, who were full-blooded.

              It was the only thing in the school that hinted that there had been anyone here when the settlers arrived.

              I would rather deal with the KKK or the Aryan Brotherhood than liberals getting steamed up over things they don't, and will never, understand. Because in the end the latter tend to be the biggest racists of all.
              Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                Man...a bunch of white people trying to determine what is and isn't offensive to non-whites: that is offensive.

                I grew up in a school whose team and mascot were Indian-centeric. There were two of us in the system, to the best of my knowledge, who were full-blooded.

                It was the only thing in the school that hinted that there had been anyone here when the settlers arrived.

                I would rather deal with the KKK or the Aryan Brotherhood than liberals getting steamed up over things they don't, and will never, understand. Because in the end the latter tend to be the biggest racists of all.
                Now you're the one being racist. Take the white man's money, operate casinos that fleece the white man, but don't let the white man have an opinion.

                Meanwhile live as a sovereign state with the United States, don't assimilate like 300 million other Americans had to in order to survive, but be sure to expect sympathy and handouts along the way from the very American whom you revile at every opportunity.

                Oh, and don't forget to have negative opinions about what white people do while whining about their opinions about what you do. White people call that "hypocrisy".

                I don't think so.
                Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                  Man...a bunch of white people trying to determine what is and isn't offensive to non-whites: that is offensive.

                  I grew up in a school whose team and mascot were Indian-centeric. There were two of us in the system, to the best of my knowledge, who were full-blooded.

                  It was the only thing in the school that hinted that there had been anyone here when the settlers arrived.

                  I would rather deal with the KKK or the Aryan Brotherhood than liberals getting steamed up over things they don't, and will never, understand. Because in the end the latter tend to be the biggest racists of all.
                  Can't rep you, too soon. it's always outsiders that determine that something is offensive, hardly ever the people that are supposedly being offended!
                  Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Trung Si View Post
                    Can't rep you, too soon. it's always outsiders that determine that something is offensive, hardly ever the people that are supposedly being offended!
                    So does the fact that native groups have come forward to say it's wrong mean that the debate is over and it's definitively offensive, then?

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Trung Si View Post
                      Can't rep you, too soon. it's always outsiders that determine that something is offensive, hardly ever the people that are supposedly being offended!
                      More often than not.

                      And in stuff involving NA, there's always that assumption by white liberals that we're all just one group. One of the things that is pissing off groups in Cheese-land is that most of the logos feature Plains Indian stereotypes, which the natives in that area weren't.

                      But since for your average white liberal we're all just guileless little children, that never enters the discussion...

                      Personally, I am not offended by logos and team names, or even the term 'squaw' used in place names. There's far too much effort been and being made to erase the Native Americans from US history as it is.

                      But I do crack up when non-Plains areas used Plains Indian logos and stuff. That is funny as hell. First because it shows how stupid the people setting it up are, and secondly it sticks it to those lowlife east and west coast bastards.
                      Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        There might be a problem in Louisiana using Tribal names like Atakappas, Chitimacha, Tunica-Biloxi and Caddo. One High School in Lake Charles is named Charging Indians because the Atakappas used to have a settlement down at Prien Lake (once Indian Lake). What was left of the Atakappas were absorbed into the local population after many died off.

                        We have some Native American communities left. My favorite is the Lipan Apache that live near Ebarb, Louisiana. I have worked for the Coushatta Clans that were part of the Creek Confederacy in Alabama. One of my high school friends (a Lipan Apache) was a great comfort to me at my Father's funeral service in 2011.

                        Pruitt
                        Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                        Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                        by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
                          And this sums up the issue in a nutshell.
                          And not unexpected either.
                          Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                            Man...a bunch of white people trying to determine what is and isn't offensive to non-whites: that is offensive.

                            I grew up in a school whose team and mascot were Indian-centeric. There were two of us in the system, to the best of my knowledge, who were full-blooded.

                            It was the only thing in the school that hinted that there had been anyone here when the settlers arrived.

                            I would rather deal with the KKK or the Aryan Brotherhood than liberals getting steamed up over things they don't, and will never, understand. Because in the end the latter tend to be the biggest racists of all.
                            Originally posted by Trung Si View Post
                            Can't rep you, too soon. it's always outsiders that determine that something is offensive, hardly ever the people that are supposedly being offended!
                            I got him for you. Though I don't necessarily agree about dealing with the KKK or Aryan over the liberals, to me, all three examples are equally as bad in this day and age. I'd prefer not to deal with any of them, all three seem to be as bad as racists as can be. Their methods differ, that's about it.
                            The First Amendment applies to SMS, Emails, Blogs, online news, the Fourth applies to your cell phone, computer, and your car, but the Second only applies to muskets?

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                            • #74
                              It's all about that warrior spirit which is easy to admire from a distance.

                              As there is a bit of ritualized warfare with religious overtones in team sports perhaps that is about the only way people can emotional connect to Native Americans in a modern world.
                              We hunt the hunters

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
                                It's all about that warrior spirit which is easy to admire from a distance.

                                As there is a bit of ritualized warfare with religious overtones in team sports perhaps that is about the only way people can emotional connect to Native Americans in a modern world.
                                I think that's why there are different approaches, not just "you can't use Indians at all no matter what!"

                                As I pointed out, some teams for Native American schools are called the Redskins.

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