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Should the Confederate flag be removed from SC statehouse grounds?

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  • Originally posted by R. Evans View Post
    You're falling into the old trap, Pirate by thinking that I'm using 21st Century mindsets to judge the CSA. I'm not. I could use any number of 1800s writers and thinkers who say the same things I do. Abolitionists, politicians from the North (and a few from the South), and everyday people who saw slavery and secession as evil things. It was condemned then as now and usually in far stronger terms than I've used.

    A few quotes from Grant:



    Grant, a 19th Century man, is saying basically the same things that I and others have in this thread.

    That's just a few quotes from one man on slavery. There are many, many more against slavery and treason from thousands of others. So no, I'm not looking back with a 21st Century mindset but rather a mindset of what's right and wrong in any century of this country's existence.
    Usually I edit a long post, but I dislike doing that to Grant.
    Most know that I champion the concept that historical position and events must be viewed in their own time frame. I'm beginning to develop a caveat to that ideal.
    Perhaps, my hesitancy is based upon the writings of those discussing the critical issue prior to the War and those published after the conflict.
    It's a tough consideration for historical military icons both North and South. I'm a reader of diaries and journals written by both the famous and the unknown.
    I've come to the conclusion that abolitionists prior to the War were a fervent group that, regardless of their personal beliefs, failed to embrace those that had anti-slavery thoughts, but were involved with their lives more than a social institution.

    Prior to the ACW, Americans relayed their feelings in the newspapers or in pamphlets. When looking for these references by the major future military icons of either side, I fail.

    Before the flame war starts, I'm aware of Grant's slavery situation. Pick your top 5 military leaders on either side prior to the War, and cite the published writings that were written pre War.

    Don't take this as a challenge, just see it as an example of how we might have to change our view of the ACW primary writings from just 19th Cent. to Pre-Post ACW.
    My Avatar: Ivan W. Henderson Gunner/navigator B-25-26. 117 combat missions. Both Theaters. 11 confirmed kills. DSC.

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    • To be a traitor or a hero is only a question of success or failure .

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      • Originally posted by ljadw View Post
        To be a traitor or a hero is only a question of success or failure .
        Very, very true.
        Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

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        • Well, it will be gone along with the flagpole. So will the flags over the graves of those that died fighting in the Civil War as the racist left continue their purge to rewrite history before yesterday.
          “Breaking News,”

          “Something irrelevant in your life just happened and now we are going to blow it all out of proportion for days to keep you distracted from what's really going on.”

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          • Originally posted by SRV Ron View Post
            Well, it will be gone along with the flagpole. So will the flags over the graves of those that died fighting in the Civil War as the racist left continue their purge to rewrite history before yesterday.
            Buzz words and a complete inversion of the truth. Things never change here.

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            • Selective condemnation of a symbol.

              Neo-Nazis use the US flag all across the country.
              {}

              "Any story sounds true until someone tells the other side and sets the record straight." -Proverbs 18:17

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              • Still waiting to see one documented case of someone actually being "offended" by the CBF. Anyone?
                My worst jump story:
                My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                No lie.

                ~
                "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                -2 Commando Jumpmaster

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                • Originally posted by BorderRuffian View Post
                  Neo-Nazis use the US flag all across the country.
                  American Nazis - 1930s
                  Neo-Nazi movement - 1959-Present

                  A near 80 year history of using the US flag.
                  {}

                  "Any story sounds true until someone tells the other side and sets the record straight." -Proverbs 18:17

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                  • Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
                    Still waiting to see one documented case of someone actually being "offended" by the CBF. Anyone?
                    There were several claims of being offended during the impassioned speeches this morning in the Caroline legislature, with one lady pointing out rather heatedly that she is from a long line of Carolinians and she "has a heritage too".

                    These days, one is offended if one claims to be. No "proof" is neccessary, and I'm not even sure what form such proof would take, since being offended is a state of mind, not a physical change.
                    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      There were several claims of being offended during the impassioned speeches this morning in the Caroline legislature, with one lady pointing out rather heatedly that she is from a long line of Carolinians and she "has a heritage too".

                      These days, one is offended if one claims to be. No "proof" is neccessary, and I'm not even sure what form such proof would take, since being offended is a state of mind, not a physical change.
                      I have identified as "offended" since childhood. I am proud to use this forum as the venue of my public outing.

                      I trust that I will be hailed for my bravery for this public declaration.
                      Don't leave good whiskey for the damn Yankees!" John Hunt Morgan, Eagleport, Ohio, July 23, 1863

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                      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        There were several claims of being offended during the impassioned speeches this morning in the Caroline legislature, with one lady pointing out rather heatedly that she is from a long line of Carolinians and she "has a heritage too".

                        These days, one is offended if one claims to be. No "proof" is neccessary, and I'm not even sure what form such proof would take, since being offended is a state of mind, not a physical change.
                        Sounds like serious BS, you can't be offended by the CBF if you are not offended by Rap and the N-word lyrics.
                        My worst jump story:
                        My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                        As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                        No lie.

                        ~
                        "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                        -2 Commando Jumpmaster

                        Comment


                        • Governor to sign bill removing Confederate flag on Thursday

                          COLUMBIA, S.C. (AP) — More than 50 years after South Carolina raised a Confederate flag at its Statehouse to protest the civil rights movement, the state is getting ready to remove the rebel banner.

                          A bill pulling down the flag from the Capitol's front lawn and the flagpole it flies on passed the South Carolina House early Thursday morning. Gov. Nikki Haley said she would sign it into law at 4 p.m. Thursday in the Statehouse lobby. Her office didn't immediately say when the flag would be removed, but the bill requires that to happen within 24 hours of her signature. Then, it will be shipped to the Confederate Relic Room.

                          There were hugs, tears and high fives in the House chamber after the vote. Members who waited decades to see this day snapped selfies and pumped their fists. But even among the celebrations, there was more than a bit of sadness.

                          After the Civil War, the flag was first flown over the dome of South Carolina's Capitol in 1961 to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the war. It stayed as a protest to the Civil Rights movement, only moving in 2000 from the dome to its current location.
                          AP - Full Article

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                          • Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
                            Still waiting to see one documented case of someone actually being "offended" by the CBF. Anyone?
                            Well partner here is one person whom seems offended by the CBF,

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiyOgFk6bfI

                            The lady above also claims to be a descendant of Jefferson Davis.

                            Fwiw I do not agree with how Rep. Jenny Horne handled things. If I was in Hornes position I would be using my position to get CSA supporters and non CSA supporters to find common ground. The enemy after all is in Iraq and Syria, of course I'm talking about ISIL here. This CSA flag thing has divided people, and what I believe in is unity. One thing I would also do If I was in Hornes position would be to politely ask members of the community how they felt about the CSA flag and then go from there.

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                            • Originally posted by Taieb el-Okbi View Post
                              Well partner here is one person whom seems offended by the CBF,

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiyOgFk6bfI

                              The lady above also claims to be a descendant of Jefferson Davis.

                              Fwiw I do not agree with how Rep. Jenny Horne handled things. If I was in Hornes position I would be using my position to get CSA supporters and non CSA supporters to find common ground. The enemy after all is in Iraq and Syria, of course I'm talking about ISIL here. This CSA flag thing has divided people, and what I believe in is unity....
                              ...except that many of the people who wanted the flag down are motivated by hate. Don't see any basis for 'unity' there.
                              {}

                              "Any story sounds true until someone tells the other side and sets the record straight." -Proverbs 18:17

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Taieb el-Okbi View Post
                                Well partner here is one person whom seems offended by the CBF,

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiyOgFk6bfI

                                The lady above also claims to be a descendant of Jefferson Davis.

                                Fwiw I do not agree with how Rep. Jenny Horne handled things. If I was in Hornes position I would be using my position to get CSA supporters and non CSA supporters to find common ground. The enemy after all is in Iraq and Syria, of course I'm talking about ISIL here. This CSA flag thing has divided people, and what I believe in is unity. One thing I would also do If I was in Hornes position would be to politely ask members of the community how they felt about the CSA flag and then go from there.
                                White guilt.... she needs to step down and move on.

                                I like this youtube comment: Just like 98% of all other politicians, she is fake as ****. Where was she with all of these "Feelings" before the shooting? She didn't think anything of it.
                                My worst jump story:
                                My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                                As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                                No lie.

                                ~
                                "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                                -2 Commando Jumpmaster

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