Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Should the Confederate flag be removed from SC statehouse grounds?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
    I would disagree with the "people are agreeing" statement.

    We are intimidated.
    If I flew a rainbow flag or an ISIS flag outside my house, I would not have any concerns.
    If I now flew a confederate flag outside my house, I would fear some form of retaliation.

    There is no guarantee that there would be vandalism, but I would submit that my fears are not unreasonable.
    http://juneauempire.com/state/2015-0...hird-time-year

    ANCHORGAGE — An Anchorage LGBT community center is flying a half-burned rainbow flag after someone vandalized the organization for the third time in less than a year.
    “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
    “To talk of many things:
    Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
    Of cabbages—and kings—
    And why the sea is boiling hot—
    And whether pigs have wings.”
    ― Lewis Carroll

    Comment



    • I would submit that is more the exception than the rule.

      Consider the plight of the pizza place that said it would not cater the hypothetical gay wedding.
      Or the photographer or the baker who refused to work at a gay wedding.

      I googled rainbow flag vandalized and the anchorage incident was the only one on the first page.
      I googled "confederate vandalized" and came up with a number of different incidents.

      I think that supports my point.
      Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

      Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

      Comment



      • please do a search on "confederate vandalized" and see how many incidents you come up with.
        Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

        Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

        Comment




        • By the way, does this in any way disprove my point that the risk is far greater for supporting a confederate flag than a rainbow flag?
          Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

          Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
            By the way, does this in any way disprove my point that the risk is far greater for supporting a confederate flag than a rainbow flag?
            Why would it? Nothing I posted mentioned that subject.
            “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
            “To talk of many things:
            Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
            Of cabbages—and kings—
            And why the sea is boiling hot—
            And whether pigs have wings.”
            ― Lewis Carroll

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
              please do a search on "confederate vandalized" and see how many incidents you come up with.
              And how many of those were against private property, i.e flags at houses?
              “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
              “To talk of many things:
              Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
              Of cabbages—and kings—
              And why the sea is boiling hot—
              And whether pigs have wings.”
              ― Lewis Carroll

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                And how many of those were against private property, i.e flags at houses?

                Why does that make a difference?
                If a symbol is being vandalized because certain groups disapprove of it, I would be foolish to think that putting that symbol on private property would make a difference to the vandals.


                Here is an example of one burned at a private residence. Surprisingly, in Texas.
                http://www.nbcnews.com/video/confede...e-471194179575
                Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                  Why would it? Nothing I posted mentioned that subject.

                  In that case, it would seem there was no point to the post then.
                  Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                  Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
                    please do a search on "confederate vandalized" and see how many incidents you come up with.

                    I never said that vandalism against the Confederate flag didn't exist, so no.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
                      In that case, it would seem there was no point to the post then.
                      You stated that you'd not worry about vandalism if you flew a Rainbow flag at your residence, I responded with information showing that you might rethink that idea.
                      “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                      “To talk of many things:
                      Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                      Of cabbages—and kings—
                      And why the sea is boiling hot—
                      And whether pigs have wings.”
                      ― Lewis Carroll

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
                        Why does that make a difference?
                        If a symbol is being vandalized because certain groups disapprove of it, I would be foolish to think that putting that symbol on private property would make a difference to the vandals.


                        Here is an example of one burned at a private residence. Surprisingly, in Texas.
                        http://www.nbcnews.com/video/confede...e-471194179575
                        The post that I responded to was about flying FLAGS at a residence and possible vandalism of it and or the residence. Your post had nothing to do with public monuments being vandalized.
                        “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
                        “To talk of many things:
                        Of shoes—and ships—and sealing-wax—
                        Of cabbages—and kings—
                        And why the sea is boiling hot—
                        And whether pigs have wings.”
                        ― Lewis Carroll

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by R. Evans View Post
                          Hysterics notwithstanding, why is the US the only nation that tolerates the celebration of people who were traitors and tried to rend the nation apart?
                          It isn't the only nation and the reason we tolerate it is because of the first amendment. Humanity has a long standing track record of absolutely sucking at censoring bad speech while permitting positive speech. The species just isn't smart enough to analyze everything in proper context outside of out of control emotion. So you're left with two options: permit all speech, even the speech you hate, or permit censorship with the overwhelming probability that righteous speech will be shut down as well. As it stands, permitting the speech you hate is the best defense for protecting the speech you love.

                          Originally posted by R. Evans View Post
                          Heritage be damned! That heritage is one of treason and slavery. Celebrate and honor that? No freaking way!
                          You're not wrong, at least at the political level. The Confederacy as a political entity was about defying the Union and maintaining slavery. But it is worth noting that there were southern abolitionists, some of whom fought against the union because they felt that their homeland was being invaded.

                          I don't mean this as a criticism, but you're thinking like a 21st century American. A 19th century American didn't think in such solidly nationalistic terms. They saw themselves as states joined in a union rather than a solid monolithic power bloc. The concept of states of the union being mere territorial boundaries for purposes of organization and not separate entities with their own culture was a fairly new one. So not all Confederate soldiers were engaging in a premeditated defiance of authority. For the Confederate ranker - as opposed to the politician - his reasons for fighting could range from being drafted to simply responding to the fact that an army was marching toward his town and he had to protect it. Treason is a strong word for those motivations.

                          This is why I would agree that flying the Confederate flag over the state capitol is in poor taste but would not castigate people for having the flag or feeling some kind of emotional connection to the flag. Not everyone who fought under the flag was a fire breathing slave beating monster. For the political class it was all about slavery and resisting federal authority, no doubt. Hence, flying the flag as a state symbol does send mixed messages considering that the South was supposed to take a loyalty oath. But for the rank and file it was a different story. Politicians go to war for politics but your average soldier goes to war for the sake of his family and community. And I won't begrudge someone wanting to honor that.

                          It is also worth noting that symbolizing one's heritage does not interfere with one's personal loyalties. There is a Hessian mercenary in my family tree and I do have some Hessian military decorations I have collected. I am 100% pro American and am quite glad we won the American Revolution. In all honesty, my ancestor probably was too considering that he mustered out and stayed behind when the war was over. As a PMC he wouldn't have been emotionally invested in fighting the Continentals anyway. Nothing personal, just business. But I don't black out that part of my family's history because he fought against America. I'm not anti American. I simply hold onto that as part of my family's story in the American experience. I actually tell the story to demonstrate the goodness of America since he did fight against the Continental Army but was allowed to settle and raise a family in spite of this. I once told the story to my church kids when illustrating forgiveness.

                          When you simply blot out unfavorable parts of history, you lose good stuff like that too.
                          A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

                          Comment


                          • You're falling into the old trap, Pirate by thinking that I'm using 21st Century mindsets to judge the CSA. I'm not. I could use any number of 1800s writers and thinkers who say the same things I do. Abolitionists, politicians from the North (and a few from the South), and everyday people who saw slavery and secession as evil things. It was condemned then as now and usually in far stronger terms than I've used.

                            A few quotes from Grant:

                            I felt like anything rather than rejoicing at the downfall of a foe who had fought so long and valiantly, and had suffered so much for a cause, though that cause was, I believe, one of the worst for which a people ever fought, and one for which there was the least excuse.
                            As soon as slavery fired upon the flag it was felt, we all felt, even those who did not object to slaves, that slavery must be destroyed. We felt that it was a stain to the Union that men should be bought and sold like cattle.
                            There had to be an end of slavery. Then we were fighting an enemy with whom we could not make a peace. We had to destroy him. No convention, no treaty was possible – only destruction.
                            Grant, a 19th Century man, is saying basically the same things that I and others have in this thread.

                            That's just a few quotes from one man on slavery. There are many, many more against slavery and treason from thousands of others. So no, I'm not looking back with a 21st Century mindset but rather a mindset of what's right and wrong in any century of this country's existence.
                            Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Combat Engineer View Post
                              You stated that you'd not worry about vandalism if you flew a Rainbow flag at your residence, I responded with information showing that you might rethink that idea.


                              I think the odds are with me.
                              Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                              Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
                                Exactly. Failure to agree with the mob has consequences as we have seen with that pizza place in Indiana saying it would refuse to cater a hypothetical gay wedding.
                                Anyone who disagrees with the mob becomes a target, because alternate points of view will not be tolerated.
                                Exactly! Repercussions, particularly as it goes contrary to the latest lib-tard "cause", WILL "haunt" you.

                                This is why no one will speak out against this stuff.

                                GG
                                "The will of a section rooted in self interest, should not outweigh the vital interests of a whole people." -Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain-

                                "Fanatics of any sort are dangerous." -GG-

                                Comment

                                Latest Topics

                                Collapse

                                Working...
                                X