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Should the Confederate flag be removed from SC statehouse grounds?

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  • Daemon of Decay
    replied
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    I agree it isn't objective. That's my point. This is a subjective thing dreamed up primarily by the Left.
    Before I begin, your standard response of blaming everything you dislike on "the Left" doesn't really do your arguments any service. I'm not saying you're wrong here, only that I suspect you would blame liberals if you stubbed your toe.

    Don't be fooled: DoD blames communists whenever he ends up losing a sock in the dryer. The hypocrite.

    It's the same thing as forcing the City of Los Angeles to remove a tiny cross in it's seal.
    But, the danger in it is that it is also a death of a thousand paper cuts so-to-speak. When a vocal minority can erase history for all intents there's a serious problem.
    But history isn't being erased. It's a recurring argument that hasn't had a scrap of evidence in support - unless one believes that moving something into a museum is 'erasing history'.

    That's where the Left is heading us. Towards a 1984-ish future of revisionist history and fiction where PC rules and the past is forgotten. That's a bad thing.
    Any political ideology is just as culpable of trying to subvert rights. Conservatives have time and again tried to ban burning or desecrating the American flag - for a while it was even law (Flag Protection Act) and there are still into recent years attempts to pass constitutional amendments banning flag desecration.

    That is an attack on free speech by conservatives in the name of criminalizing what they see as an offensive, disrespectful act. It's a gross attack on the 1st amendment by the federal government. By that measure, a state relocating one flag from a public area to a museum doesn't even compare.

    More to the point, much of the language used in this debate depend almost entirely upon hypothetical slippery-slope arguments, which is a fallacy when such an outcome is not proven, or even demonstrated likely.

    At the end of the day we have to be aware of what actually happened here: a confederate flag was moved from a flag pole to a museum. There was no attack on free speech, no limitation of rights, and no deletion of history.

    And this is certainly not the start of some 1984-leftist terror.

    Leave a comment:


  • BigDog
    replied
    Originally posted by guthrieba View Post
    Has anyone else noted the resemblance between the present Georgia state flag and the Confederate First National? I am sure that it is mere coincidence.
    It aint by accident shall we say.

    Yall want to know the real dang reason we fly the CBF down here, just click on any thread on these forums involving NASCAR. Sure enough somebody is going to poke there nose in and proclaim how superior they are by not watching NASCAR. The CBF is a flip off, for all that smug superiority towards the South that comes from other parts of the country. And since we are Southerners and not rude ass Yankees we start mumbling something about Heritage, instead of saying it is an FU.

    Funny enough down here in the south the Lost Causers and such don't really fly CBF much anymore, heck that just don't stand out, might be Skynard fans or just your average red-neck. Nowadays these types tend to fly the Stainless Banner usually accompanied by the Bonnie Blue.

    Leave a comment:


  • holly6
    replied
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    I agree it isn't objective. That's my point. This is a subjective thing dreamed up primarily by the Left. It's the same thing as forcing the City of Los Angeles to remove a tiny cross in it's seal.
    But, the danger in it is that it is also a death of a thousand paper cuts so-to-speak. When a vocal minority can erase history for all intents there's a serious problem.
    That's where the Left is heading us. Towards a 1984-ish future of revisionist history and fiction where PC rules and the past is forgotten. That's a bad thing.
    TAG, this thread has gone from here to there. You’re heart’s in the right place. Trying to support it with the Rising Sun, might be an over reach. Sal has covered most of my experience and thoughts about the Japanese actions during the War. I lived with my Avatar for many years.
    His years with the Red Raiders in the Pacific, had him fighting the G***m J*p bastards. He knew what Sal has researched. During his time in N. Afr./Med/ Italy, he was fighting the G***m Nazi bastards. He had an idea in his mind about the difference between a race and an ideology.
    Right or wrong, this was one man’s viewpoint, and I respect it as much as I do the posts of our lcmd1.
    Back to the OP...the “slippery slope” argument is a strong one. Many Lib. are going to try to keep the momentum going. Hopefully something else will distract them.
    I’m not sure how long the ANV flag, (can we at least agree on the discription for arguments sake?) has flown over any State grounds.
    I am aware that a few State Flags were modified during the 50's at the time of “Brown vs Board of Education” and the fight for Civil Rights.. These I find weak in the historical concept of the ACW argument. If it was so critical to identification, why wait so long?

    Being in the NW, I am not sure what day the Confederate Active Groups place flags in National or State cemeteries over the graves of their fallen. But this Yankee would be proud to decorate their graves on that day, as a protest to the present ruling. I wouldn’t do it as a political statement, but as respect for what Grant described.

    Leave a comment:


  • BF69
    replied
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    What does that have to do with it? I'm pointing out there are no cries of racism or hatred by anyone against the Japanese flag. Germany reverted to a flag similar to pre-Nazi days after WW 2.
    The Swastika has become a pariah everywhere. Japanese flag? Not a peep. I'm sure there are more flags and symbols that can be drug up for similar abuse that haven't been bothered with.

    Seems to me this is a much to do about nothing really. It is the Leftist PC crowd looking to tear down the past and all of history if you ask me more than anything else. They just look for stuff to pick at.
    The Swastika Flag was the emblem of the Nazi Party. It became the German flag in 1933 & remained so until 1945. it remained the flag of the Nazi party & it still symbolizes all that party stood for.

    'Deutschland Uber Alles' in different configurations has been the German national anthem more or less continuously since 1922, including the Nazi period. The current version uses a different selection of lyrics, but the same tune that Hitler used to salute to.

    The Rising Sun flag with rays dates back to 1870 & the Meiji Restoration. It was a military flag and it remains one. The particular version in current usage was & is the flag of the Navy. The Rising Sun flag with just the disc on a white background became the national flag at the same time & it remains the national flag (slightly altered).

    The Confederate battle flag represented combatants of a nation that existed for 4 years & only came into existence because some US states sensed a threat to slavery. It was revived as a big 'F**k You' to the Civil Rights movement.

    The differences here are clear to anyone who cares to see them. You won't be among them of course.

    I note with some amusement that when I pointed out to you on another thread that you wouldn't be able to resist the chance to scream 'hypocrisy' at a 'Liberal' over the issue of the Confederate flag you smugly pointed out your lack of interest in that issue. Guess you just can't resist. Told ya.

    Leave a comment:


  • T. A. Gardner
    replied
    Originally posted by Daemon of Decay View Post
    Probably because it's not being flown on public property within the United States.

    Go to some areas of Korea and China and ask those people what the Imperial Japanese flag means to them, and you'll certainly get a very different response.

    Like with most things like this, it isn't an objective either/or situation, but tied up heavily in context, subjective experiences, and cultural history.
    I agree it isn't objective. That's my point. This is a subjective thing dreamed up primarily by the Left. It's the same thing as forcing the City of Los Angeles to remove a tiny cross in it's seal.
    But, the danger in it is that it is also a death of a thousand paper cuts so-to-speak. When a vocal minority can erase history for all intents there's a serious problem.
    That's where the Left is heading us. Towards a 1984-ish future of revisionist history and fiction where PC rules and the past is forgotten. That's a bad thing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Salinator
    replied
    Originally posted by R. Evans View Post
    How is it selective outrage? That flag isn't being flown here on government property as the CBF is.
    I'm not saying selective outrage from you. I'm merely making a point that outrage is selective by people.

    If the current German government used the Swastika in any form...most of people that fought Nazi Germany would scream...but apparently no one gives a **** about the Rising Sun because it was primarily Asians getting killed. On the other hand...the Chinese wouldn't give it **** about the Swastika because China was supplied and trained by Nazi Germany in her war against Japan until the Tripartite Pact and never directly do anything against China.

    Originally posted by R. Evans View Post
    And Japan killed more than Germany? First I've heard of that.
    Like I said...selective outrage. In this case...most of us here are Euro-centric when it comes to knowledge of history and war. I'm betting that probably nine out ten here did not even know that Japan still uses the Rising Sun...but every fricking member here knows that the Swastika is illegal in Germany. So it would be no surprise to me if the majority here does not know that Japan killed more. And you think Nazi Germany was the only one with gas chambers?

    Leave a comment:


  • Bwaha
    replied
    Originally posted by R. Evans View Post

    And Japan killed more than Germany? First I've heard of that.
    Yeah if you look at the 'exploits' of Unit 791 with bio warfare in China...

    Leave a comment:


  • R. Evans
    replied
    Originally posted by Salinator View Post
    While the Rising Sun does not fly over government property in the US...it is however still used by the Japanese Military. It is an example of selective outrage. The Swastika in outlawed in Germany but Imperial Japan that killed move people than Nazi Germany still flies her battle flag proudly.
    How is it selective outrage? That flag isn't being flown here on government property as the CBF is.

    And Japan killed more than Germany? First I've heard of that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Salinator
    replied
    Originally posted by R. Evans View Post
    Oh boy, care to name government property that the Rising Sun flag is flying over in the US? No? Then move along.
    While the Rising Sun does not fly over government property in the US...it is however still used by the Japanese Military. It is an example of selective outrage. The Swastika in outlawed in Germany but Imperial Japan that killed move people than Nazi Germany did still flies her battle flag proudly.

    Leave a comment:


  • Daemon of Decay
    replied
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    What does that have to do with it? I'm pointing out there are no cries of racism or hatred by anyone against the Japanese flag.
    Probably because it's not being flown on public property within the United States.

    Go to some areas of Korea and China and ask those people what the Imperial Japanese flag means to them, and you'll certainly get a very different response.

    Like with most things like this, it isn't an objective either/or situation, but tied up heavily in context, subjective experiences, and cultural history.

    Leave a comment:


  • R. Evans
    replied
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    What does that have to do with it? I'm pointing out there are no cries of racism or hatred by anyone against the Japanese flag. Germany reverted to a flag similar to pre-Nazi days after WW 2.
    The Swastika has become a pariah everywhere. Japanese flag? Not a peep. I'm sure there are more flags and symbols that can be drug up for similar abuse that haven't been bothered with.

    Seems to me this is a much to do about nothing really. It is the Leftist PC crowd looking to tear down the past and all of history if you ask me more than anything else. They just look for stuff to pick at.
    What does that have to do with it? Care to read the f**king thread title?!!!

    Try keeping up.

    Leave a comment:


  • T. A. Gardner
    replied
    Originally posted by R. Evans View Post
    Oh boy, care to name government property that the Rising Sun flag is flying over in the US? No? Then move along.
    What does that have to do with it? I'm pointing out there are no cries of racism or hatred by anyone against the Japanese flag. Germany reverted to a flag similar to pre-Nazi days after WW 2.
    The Swastika has become a pariah everywhere. Japanese flag? Not a peep. I'm sure there are more flags and symbols that can be drug up for similar abuse that haven't been bothered with.

    Seems to me this is a much to do about nothing really. It is the Leftist PC crowd looking to tear down the past and all of history if you ask me more than anything else. They just look for stuff to pick at.

    Leave a comment:


  • R. Evans
    replied
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    While I haven't said much, if anything on this, I have a question:

    If this:



    And this:



    Are symbols of racism, bigotry, hate, and war in the name of such, why is no one complaining about this:



    As but one example of what seems to be hypocrisy on the part of those demanding the removal of all things Confederate...
    Oh boy, care to name government property that the Rising Sun flag is flying over in the US? No? Then move along.

    Leave a comment:


  • guthrieba
    replied
    Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
    The Georgia state flag that was used from 1956 to 2001 featured a prominent

    <Lengthy discussion deleted - this deletion is not intended as an editorial comment on the cited post which was quite reasonably argued>

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_o...8U.S._state%29
    :
    Has anyone else noted the resemblance between the present Georgia state flag and the Confederate First National? I am sure that it is mere coincidence.

    Leave a comment:


  • guthrieba
    replied
    Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
    I guess it all goes to prove that in general the people on this forum are more reasonable than most. I don't recall anyone here thinking this sort of thing was a good idea.

    My impression is that some of the correspondents to this August Forum were dismissive of the idea that matters could progress that far.

    Leave a comment:

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